Are people either leaders or followers, performers or watchers? We have never been more connected to each other and simultaneously more alienated. Polarisation is rife, and the poles seem like they’re melting further and further away, both literally and figuratively. The very term “follower” has been perverted from its original meaning — to move behind, to obey — to become a marker of one’s worth online. Meanwhile, watchers are becoming more detached, with audiences’ fingers twitching, itching to comment on that latest episode without having watched it, and with no intention to. In tandem with this internet-addled apathy, leaders are getting more perverse: the more shocking the performance, the more (passive) engagement.
This interview is taken from Issue 54 and adapted for our digital platform. Order your print copy here.
Amidst this cult of personality and passivity, there is actor Anna Van Patten. When asked the question: “Are you a leader, or a follower?” she opts for the in-between. Though she confessed she would follow her sisters (namely her older sister, actor Grace Van Patten) to the ends of the earth, for Anna, the prospect of being the main character or a true follower is out of her comfort zone. There must be a grey area: she prays into her morning pages.
However, as a child of a showbiz family, this pursuit of liminality might prove difficult. Especially as she has already starred in the “Gossip Girl” reboot, played Grace’s on-screen sister in “The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox”, and landed a role in one of the biggest and most controversial TV shows of this century, famous for dealing in heady highs of hedonism and explosive lows of exploitation, “Euphoria”.
What Anna truly yearns for is to become a sacred vessel, to put her faith in a storyteller, an artist, who can paint a picture for her to step into. Her approach to her craft is all about surrender, letting go, and emptying herself to be truly present. Perhaps this is why her friends jokingly voted her as most likely to join a cult, because she longs to step outside of herself. Is it not romantic, freeing, to take another’s word as gospel?
Perhaps that’s where most of us are now, amidst this crisis in faith and intimacy, looking for something greater than ourselves to hang on to, and finding no such salvation. As false icons abound and the only thing we can rely on is ourselves (and the self is, of course, the most unreliable narrator of them all), maybe it’s easier to go on, apathetic and empty. However, Anna laments that the pursuit of emptiness is not easy: all she wants is for her audience to give her the grace of being more interested in her characters than they are in her, to have her individuality disappear into the communion of the story.
It’s apt then, when talking about leaders, she elected the ocean as her icon, quoting Leonard Cohen’s “Book of Longing”: “If you don’t become the ocean, you’ll be seasick every day”. Because this is where we find Anna, scared, seasick, standing on the precipice of a daring debut, longing for peace in the grey, monotheistic expanse of the ocean.
Coat PRADA.
This issue is about people’s desire for icons, specifically in a spiritually deficient world. Do you think we’re experiencing a spiritual deficit?
I choose to believe because I think it’s the only way that we don’t get depressed, lost and hopeless with our leadership. There is a rich culture here in the US; there’s art happening that feels even more important and more targeted, and stories that need to be told. I feel like a lack of spirituality is encouraging people to do so, to tell stories. But I also think that I might need to believe this, for myself and my sanity. I am kind of living in a bubble in New York, and I try to focus on my individual spirituality, which is important to me, but it’s hard to find a connection with people in other states who believe something totally different. But when I make my art, I don’t necessarily have other people in mind. I’m selfish, doing it for myself and not to serve a greater spirituality for the community. I’ve always been fascinated with religion. I’m not baptised, and I grew up going to church here and there, but I wouldn’t call myself a religious person until later in life when I found my own relationship with God. When this happened, I found comfort in trusting that there is a plan, but also that the most important thing in this life is kindness and empathy. I’ve always been fascinated by pieces of art that bring up questions of spirituality.
Speaking of spirituality and creativity, have you done Julia Cameron’s “The Artist’s Way”? I clocked your morning pages in Nylon.
I’ve never done it, but I’ve talked at great length with friends who have. So many of the things that have come out of “The Artist’s Way” I had actually found myself already, like journaling, especially. This has helped me and is such an important part of my life. That, and taking myself on dates. I need to do that: I’m always on a date with myself.
That’s so romantic. In the book, she talks about how creativity is like God speaking through you. As an actor, does it feel like it could be like God speaking through you?
Yeah, at times. I want to be a vessel for energy and absorb positivity in that sense. With creativity, when you do get an idea, you have to put it down in a journal. And sometimes, doing that, it feels pointless, I ask myself, why did this phrase come to my mind? Why this color? But every time this doubt creeps in, I choose to believe it matters to write it down, no matter what it is or what it could mean, even though it could be the silliest thing ever. When I’m especially tapped in, the art around you, movies, songs, feels like it’s been made for you, it’s like magic, like you’ve somehow been having these exact same thoughts as these artists. This makes me get excited, and I think that there is something like God in the cultural energy that comes through us in this way.
What was the last piece of art that made you feel this way?
This past kind of year has been different for me, because I have been busier, which has been such a blessing. When I’m not working, I’m flowing. My headspace and mindset have altered, so I don’t have a finger on the pulse like I usually do. This is fun, in itself, because I’m in a period where I’m really trying to force myself to go to exhibits and watch movies that don’t necessarily speak to me. This is just something I have to do to find my way back in. So, I can’t think of the last piece of art that brought up those feelings. I have always been really obsessed with dinosaurs. No matter my headspace, my favorite thing is to get to the Natural History Museum just as it opens and go to the top floor to be with the dinosaurs. And then there’s that Netflix dinosaur TV show that came out. I couldn’t name you five Dino fun facts; I’m just interested in their grandness. It’s something that really lets my imagination run wild: that if these creatures can exist, anything could exist. It’s like magic.
“We connect with the world by telling stories, and it’s easy to put your faith in someone when they can paint a picture.”
You seem like a true romantic.
I romanticize constantly. It’s like finding the beauty in everything, and being able to look at an object and not take anything for granted, and everything has beauty.
You’ve been busy, of course, because of landing your role as Kitty in “Euphoria”. The show is obviously star-making material. How are you feeling about being part of this big following?
When you think of following the leader, it’s cool to join a show when you can trust the creator’s vision completely, because Sam Levinson knows the story he wants to tell. I had trust in his vision because I loved the first two seasons. It’s been both interesting and heartbreaking for my character to be introduced online before the release of the episodes I’m in. It’s heartbreaking because I want the character to be the most important thing, not me.
It seems like audiences are quite apathetic, especially a huge audience like “Euphoria”. They’ll comment on work online without watching it. At the time of this interview, no one has even seen your episodes, and yet they have opinions.
With “Euphoria”, the audience is a part of the cultural impact and the conversations it opens. That was a part of why I was really excited to join this project, because it opens a lot of conversations and explores grey areas, and my character, Kitty, is a part of that. As I said, when I’m working, I’m not thinking of the audience, but I’m also hoping that it impacts them somehow, because that’s the beautiful thing about art: no one is going to see something the same way. So, if you think about it, it’s really cool that there’s a fan base that gets really passionate about things, even if they haven’t watched it.
People have pinpointed “Euphoria” as the object of ire and adoration, but it’s definitely not the most controversial thing on TV. What do you think makes viewers feel so uncomfortable? Could it be because people expect art to provide some sort of salvation, and it doesn’t offer any?
If you want salvation, don’t watch it. If you want to look inward, then do. It’s the biggest show right now, which means there is something in it that people are resonating with. It’s so important for shows to explore different sides of different stories. Who wants every show to be the same? There’s no fun in that.
Full look GIVENCHY BY SARAH BURTON.
Do you think some audiences are maybe destined to be disappointed?
Of course. With “Euphoria”, people feel like they know the characters. So, when the show does something new with them, the audience doesn’t believe in it. I don’t think the show is meant to, or trying to please anyone, but that’s just my opinion. I was nervous when I got the role, but I just reminded myself that it’s all such a blessing, even though I was scared because I knew it would be a huge change: it’s the biggest thing I’ve done so far.
The craft of acting itself involves following a leader: the director. What do you think?
I think that, in terms of Kitty, what I followed really was getting in the moment with her without overthinking things in terms of the greater story or purpose she’s supposed to serve. Instead, I was with her, present in the moment, and I let instinct be my leader. Playing her, I learned so much about myself in a way too, and know what I have to overcome to be actually present in my body. This was another thing that scared me. But that’s normal, as people, it’s really hard for us to be authentically emotional and open up. So, acting feels good to me because it’s vulnerability with a purpose: I don’t have to feel embarrassed about opening up and being raw, because that’s the job. I was relieved that I had minimal time to prep for Kitty, because it really let me feel free. But in life, I struggle with wearing my emotions on my sleeve, finding that freedom is harder to do in the world than it is on set.
What other directors would you like to work with?
I’ve always been attracted to art that exists in a world of its own. Yorgos Lanthimos’ films do that. I especially love it when humour is involved in oddness; it balances the rawness. I don’t know how he comes up with those stories, they are so singular; he’s a true artist. I love films that feel like works of art, films that leave you with a feeling without necessarily following a narrative structure. That being said, I’d love to work with Danny McBride. He’s just so funny, and his characters are wild. I’m attracted to humour because it just sounds fun to show up on set and play. You’re making people laugh, which is the best feeling. Growing up, I loved watching comedies and weird movies. There’s comedy in drama, drama in comedy, and that’s life.
Are the best leaders storytellers?
Yes, I think 100% the best leaders are storytellers. We connect with the world by telling stories, and it’s easy to put your faith in someone when they can paint a picture. Most of my favorite paintings are religious, because there’s good and there’s evil, but if you look closely, this loses clarity. There are grey areas in between, and that’s human, that’s storytelling, that’s feeling…
“Acting feels good to me because it’s vulnerability with a purpose: I don’t have to feel embarrassed about opening up and being raw, because that’s the job.”
And that’s the actor in you, finding the grey areas is what makes a character real, right?
I’m also fascinated by what the actor is telling themself when they’re performing. The audience is usually totally oblivious to this, and not knowing the actor’s intention makes it exciting, because we’re basing our interpretation on what we see. What if this differs from what the actor intended to portray? Performances that have this tension excite me. As actors, we’re a part of the story, and yes, there are stories within our stories, grey areas, but overall, our characters are there to serve a purpose for the greater plot. Finding the tension in that brings it to life.
What’s it like following the same path as your older sister, Grace?
Grace is such a natural leader on set. When I played her little sister in “The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox”, it was so cool to see my real big sister at work and how she navigates the world that she’s in. It made me so proud. The experience itself was surreal because so many lines were being blurred. But it was so exciting to just navigate all these crazy nuances with her on-screen and off-screen.
Do you learn a lot from each other?
I think I learn a lot from her, I don’t know what she learns from me.
That’s very little sister of you.
Her process is just different from mine, and she’s so good at jumping into it. She can just be hanging out on set, then can instantly snap into character when we have to go to our starting marks. And there’s my little sister, too. Grace and I idolize her because it’s so cool to have a younger person around to remind yourself of how their brain works, especially when trying to maintain a childlike wonder while growing up. We’re all obsessed with each other. But with Grace, I would love to work with her again and again and again. We’re dreaming up projects together at the moment. It’s funny to look back at when we were kids, because all the games we played involved acting. We had this one game called Office, which was our favorite. We would just pretend we’re in the office and create different scenarios with our little business cards. Acting with her was so comforting, because we’ve been doing it our whole lives, playing pretend.
How would you feel about the prospect of becoming a leader: the next big thing?
I’ve never necessarily thought of myself as a leader or the main character. My comfort zone has always been in the ensemble; I like being a part of something bigger. I have always been the quiet one and don’t like leading. But, if we’re thinking about it in binary terms: I need to either be a leader or a follower, I’d want to exist somewhere in between the two. It’s true that I could romanticize being a follower, I honestly think that it’s beautiful and freeing to be able to put your everything into one person or one thing. But I don’t think I could ever get there: put my full faith into one thing wholeheartedly. I’m just not built like that. Saying that, though, my friends were playing a game, and they said I’d be the most likely to join a cult, but I just don’t think I can do that. I would find it hard to follow a person, but if the leader were the ocean, I would get behind it. The ocean really represents humanity, and I think water has such healing properties. Leonard Cohen said, “If you don’t become the ocean, you’ll be seasick”, and that’s why I have the ocean in my mind. Though, if I had to choose another person, I’ve always said I’d follow Jane Goodall, too, because I think she represents something so beautiful and so human. I would join her cult.
The ocean and Jane Goodall are great icons. If you had to follow somebody in the ocean, who would it be? Whales seem at peace.
Yeah, whales know where they’re going. I love the look of seahorses, though. I don’t know what they get up to, but they look fascinating. And octopuses. I think they know something we don’t. There’s so much mystery and magic in the ocean, but in terms of literally following, I guess a whale makes most sense: they seem to have their migrations figured out. I’d like that for me, one day.
Full look DRIES VAN NOTEN.
Coat and skirt PRADA, bra ARAKS.
Waistcoat ACNE STUDIOS, dress HERMÈS.
Jacket GIVENCHY BY SARAH BURTON.
Dress VALENTINO.
Top SANDY LIANG, skirt SARAH APHRODITE.
