Transformation has followed Marie Lueder’s namesake brand since its launch shortly before the pandemic in 2020. As the world stilled for close to two years, Lueder transitioned into lockdown life with her new label focusing on her first collection of making unwanted clothes wanted again. As one may be able to tell, transformation is a theme here. We sat down with Marie Lueder to talk all about Lueder and how life has both changed and stayed relatively the same throughout the past four years.
Lueder goes against the current. As the world reopened and the brand grew, Lueder decided to look inward, strip down, and investigate what makes up one’s inner mind and soul. In the label’s most recent collections, Lueder has used the mediaeval theories of alchemical tradition to inform her concepts and designs. At its very core, both literally and figuratively, alchemical tradition plays with the belief that all base substances could be transformed into others. Lueder’s garments affirm this theme—they are described as clothes you can wear in many distinct ways, offering versatility and freedom, as do the individuals wearing them. In the interview you can read below, she explains that it’s hard to be so open in a society that predestines how you must perform your gender identity. This is something Lueder is looking to change.
I read that you come from a family of health practitioners. How did you initially become drawn to fashion, being in that very different environment?
My mom used to be an electrician before she became a doctor. So, she's also quite practical and hands-on, as well as academic, but I think, for her, the main component was always to work with people, and now so for me as well. She loves that and appreciates that about her job. She's retired now, but that was very important for her. I think it’s for that reason that I have to always work collaboratively. Somehow the idea of working with people and doing something through the exploration I do with my brand, which is not necessarily healing, can help an individual with whatever they are going through in their own life.
You also focus a lot on mental health in your collections, which is very different from the more physical healing your family works with. What was it like putting medicine and fashion together when creating Lueder?
I think I was lacking the psychological or therapeutic element in the work my family did. For example, they didn’t explore how the physical healing and mental state link together, which I always thought was very much linked. I think today it’s easier to talk about mental health issues without being scared about, for example, losing your job because of it. So, I think now that it's easier to talk about it than, let's say, thirty years ago. It's really important to do that as well and to make it a normal conversation. I think that was something that my parents feared doing, whereas I would be more open about it.
How do you weave these ideas into the brand?
The fundamental idea of the brand was that I didn’t want to make clothes for myself—I don’t lack things, you know. I chose menswear originally with the thought that I will be caring for someone, as well as exploring their person and how I can portray them. But as I was developing the brand, I also felt that it wasn’t just specifically about masculine identities; I can feel masculine as well. So, I was considering all identities, masculine, feminine, and non-binary. I realised, “Oh, it's not really about men.” I liked the idea of an armour, or a cocoon. I was thinking that I can develop garments that have this feeling of protection, both conceptually and literally, for example, through pattern cutting, using a soft, caressing garment.
So now, do you feel that you are fusing both menswear and womenswear, and masculine and feminine identities, together?
Yeah, definitely. I think that you could say that the masculine and feminine dressing is for aesthetics, but it is also for stereotypes, which have to be broken. I wear a suit, for example, when I have to “perform” my business to people who have very rigid views on gender stereotypes. I think there's a lot of work to be done. I don’t think it's a provocation if I put a male identifying person in a dress if they want to wear that, especially if they feel more beautiful. For me, it's asking them what they want and how a garment can make them feel better.
That's interesting because I think, especially now, there has been little progress on the subject of men's mental health and what it means to be masculine—the macho man versus being in touch with one’s feelings. Are you looking to break down these traditional stereotypes through Lueder?
Yeah, I think that there is a lot of work to be done and there are fewer role models for men. When comparing my male and female friends, I have fewer male friends who have friendships where they can address a lot of things that maybe my female friends would do—the ability to share your vulnerabilities when there's a lot of stress about performing [your gender] in a specific way. I think there is definitely less conversation. I was talking to a friend of mine, and sadly, her twin brother committed suicide. We were working together, and now she's becoming a therapist. They grew up the same way and with the same parents, but he was unsettled and depressed about the future. It was sort of like a spiral. I use that image in my work—being in a constant struggle and spiralling, and then there’s this unknown way out. In my designs, I like to literally use this spiral shape in my pattern cutting a lot, as if it were wrapping around the body. Embracing that there's something unknown there, something unforeseeable that we can't really change, has become a symbol for me. And the only way to break out of the spiral is to reach out rather than being isolated.
It's really beautiful how you form these very abstract elements into something physical in your work. Could you actually walk me through your collection, Rubedo, and what inspired it? I read it was based on an alchemical tradition, which I’ve never heard of before.
In one word, its transformation. I like the idea of bringing things back. So, alchemical tradition begins with three or four stages when you boil something down to its essence and you have this black matter. If you think that when things evaporate out of it, you change the properties to something new. I started with this idea of transformation, which is the stage of Rubedo. And then there's another stage, which is Albedo, which I would describe as the ephemeral realisation of who you are. In the show for Rubedo, we had a vape artist who blew smoke rings. I felt that smoke was an interesting way to visualise transformation, almost like a magic trick. The collection itself was very much focused on mediaeval dressing in a super modernist way, with hoodies and leggings. You could go for a run with this, but it could also have been from the 14th century. We used a lot of print techniques to support that concept. For example, we used airbrushing on some pieces. It kind of looks like fire, but when you look closely, it’s actually a jersey jogger. It's a ready-to-wear piece that you can wear when you lounge or you can wear to the club. You can wear it in all kinds of ways. For me, this concept is still ongoing. I think next the focus will be reality after all the smoke has left.
Are you beginning the process for that last stage?
Yes, there’s a lot of revisiting and continuing what we have done. But I am really enjoying this process. It’s exciting to enter the next phase.
I read that you launched the brand in February 2020, which was the beginning of the COVID pandemic. How did the pandemic influence your approach to the brand and even to mental health? Did it change your goals?
I'm glad I did the official launch with the Discovery Lab presentation at London Fashion Week because I had so much energy and euphoria from that. I was like, “Okay, this was so fun. I want to do this again. I want to work with these people again.” And then the pandemic started. I decided that I wasn’t going to give up on this. I'm very robust in that way and quite stubborn. I saw it as a challenge, actually. I made it part of my first process and decided to upcycle the whole collection. The idea was that my friends would give me their unwanted clothes, and I was going to make a collection using these clothes and a budget of £100. I would sew everything; I would rework everything; and then I would send the new garment to my friends and film them wearing the design on Zoom. And then people wanted to shop as well, so I found my first stockist and placed a big order. I wouldn’t say lockdown was bad for the brand, but it definitely needed a lot of creativity to use different processes instead of the traditional way. I was mentally more challenged, for sure. I took some time for myself, which I normally don't do. I think after that I was more confident that this situation can’t overtake me. I'm very adaptable.
Did you find that the pandemic opened up a lot of new conversations about mental health and did that influence your approach to the brand as well?
Oh, totally. There definitely was more conversation. One show we did during that time featured an energy healer, and it had a very positive reception. I think to see that people are receptive to it and allowed to be more vulnerable was interesting in light of the pandemic.
I’m curious, did you have your own transformation journey while working on the brand during the pandemic?
Totally. I was running a lot. Every second day I went for really long runs in Hackney Marshes early in the morning. I had a weird moment after fifteen minutes, like an endorphin rush. I always wanted to do a flip while running, and I never did it, but it was a funny thing because I always thought, "Okay, today I will do it." I always decided not to because I would break my hands and then I couldn’t sew anymore. So yeah, I had, like, this funny little trial of doing it but not doing it. I think in general I was exercising a lot—I started to do pilates and yoga—and having cooking nights with my flatmates. It was good to not work constantly as well. At first it was difficult, and then it was really nice.
In general, considering young creatives, would you say this period of time was a sort of healing journey but also a challenge?
I find that when I hear of people who work with me now, interns, for example, who studied during that time and who didn't have the possibility to actually make things, I can see that it had a big impact.
That takes me to my next question. So, you were chosen as a British Fashion Council Newgen designer. What does it mean to you to be named as such?
I'm happy because this is my chosen home, and I wanted to be part of that group of emerging brands who are able to receive a little bit extra support to be able to sustain our businesses. And now that we have this platform, it’s great for all the collaborators that I have worked with for a long time, and we can do the show now.
Do you think that it's important to highlight this hidden talent in London?
Yeah, definitely, and the BFC do. They support with mentoring and business advice, which are things that you don't learn at university at all. It’s very important to learn by doing so yes, it's really essential to get that support on that level. I think the more support they receive, the more they can actually grow a brand. It doesn't have to just be providing someone with that spotlight; at the moment, it’s important to have that institutional support financially and connect with investors. I hope this will be imminent, but it's my first time, so I can't say yet, but I think that if that's the case, it would be good.
Yes, I do think it’s common that young creatives and individuals starting out never get help with the admin and financial side. I think that's actually really important. Looking back when you initially started the brand in 2020, a lot has changed. Did you ever think that Lueder would become what it is today?
It’s crazy, but I'm super happy. I wanted to give up before, but I'm happy I didn't. Persistence is the only way to survive and then new opportunities come in; you meet people you probably would never have thought of before. And it's so beautiful... I feel like I don't want to do anything else right now. I never thought that all this would happen.
As a final question, if you could wear one piece from the collection that you've designed for the rest of your life, what would it be and why?
That's nice. That always changes a little bit, but at the moment it's definitely this denim wrap skirt with red stitching that I have. I don't really like wearing a handbag, and this skirt has so many pockets, which is really good. The idea of the piece is that it seems like you’re wearing baggy trousers on top of something that can be tied. It's the masculine and feminine dressing in one. Yeah, I think that's my favourite piece right now.
That's fun. I love that it has so many pockets because I think that sometimes women's clothing doesn’t have enough pockets.
Yeah! That’s why I made it because I own a lot of garments that don’t have pockets. So I wear this skirt, and I’m fine.
