“A big white wet t-shirt? That’s so basic; I could’ve done that!” The age-old discourse that when something doesn’t reflect the technicalities behind its creation on the surface, it automatically means everyone could have done it is a weight the creative industry has to carry. It is not common that in other fields the professionalism of its workers is subjected to questioning; however, in the ones that should be the less judgemental and more liberating disciplines, the prejudice is always there. Guram Gvasalia is a man of few words, but with just a couple of sentences posted on his Instagram stories, citing his historical, functional, and narrative references behind the creation of this already memorable look, he gives enough evidence of why the complexity of a creation is not defined by the extravagance of the result. In what was just a currently relevant example, it’s reflected what his career has been: a fair amount of thinking before acting, a vision of the world that either consciously or unconsciously is exclusive to his mind, and a capacity to translate concepts into garments that have defined the aesthetics of the last decade. You could’ve done that, but you didn’t; Vetements did.
Interview taken from METAL Magazine issue 50. Adapted for the online version. Order your copy here.
“Uniting eternal and temporary” were the words used by Guram to describe Doja Cat’s Met Gala look, one that has been incredibly commentated but widely misunderstood, a sentence that can also, somehow, describe what his job at Vetements has been ever since its creation with his brother Demna ten years ago: bringing together the eternal and omnipresent concept of clothing, fundamental in the construction and evolution of mankind, with the temporary qualities that can only be born as a consequence of the trends that reflect the different stages our society has existed through. That’s why Vetements is a loyal testimony to what the last decade has meant for us as a society. The difficulty we sometimes have in understanding the concepts behind the creations may perhaps raise the question of whether we are self-aware enough to see ourselves reflected in them.
This side of the story, however, the one where the creations are taken only at their mere face value, is not the one that appears with the most frequency; there’s always a chance, but it’s not the constant. The correct counterpart is the one that is predominant amongst people who love fashion and who, beyond loving it, want to understand it and if we talk about understanding, there's a lot to understand about Guram. From his Georgian origins, probably responsible for his individual sense of style and the passion and creative freedom with which he faces his job, to his painful past scarred by the horrors of war that have translated into a perception of the world that belongs only to the ones that have seen the most cruel side of humanity, or his knowledge about the industry from all of its angles, thanks to his extensive and rich resume.
A product of his time, a player that has understood the game, and a human whose inspiration is the clothes or vêtements that share space with our bodies every day and that we live our lives with, Mr. Gvasalia is constructing a language everyone can speak and those who desire to can understand.
Hi Guram!! It’s a real pleasure talking to you. How are you? I’ve been told you went to Coachella recently, right? How was it?
Interesting experience. I go to these events more for research. I like to see and analyse how people are dressed. There is something inspiring about crowds of people, especially at music festivals.
Do you attend for the festival itself or for the multiple parallel reunions and events happening at the same time? I feel like I see more about them than about the actual performances!
I’m a Libra, so I’m usually very balanced and go with the flow, letting things happen to me. There are a lot of night activities that are fun, and you can connect with many people. I mainly went to see Doja Cat, who invited me, as she was the headliner, and my friend J Balvin, whom I dressed for his performance at Coachella, and his whole current tour.
Do you enjoy going to festivals, concerts, and live music? What are you into lately?
I do go to see artists with whom I'm friends or work with. I did clothes for Madonna’s Celebration Tour and went to see her multiple shows. I just recently went to see one of Nicki Minaj’s shows in Brooklyn. I dressed Nicki for her album cover, and she raps about Vetements in her #1 song from the new album, FTCU. Her fan base is incredible. It was surreal to hear the whole arena sing “Cop me Vetements when I ride the dickie”.
These festivals used to be the biggest encounter surrounding the performers and their art, but now it seems like music has taken a secondary place under the hype of just being there for the sake of belonging to the trend. I feel like it’s similar to fashion, no? The creative industry holding the candles to what really matters now, which translates into views and likes.
The whole system is fucked up, whether it’s fashion or music. The value and perception of things have changed. It is important to understand who you are as a brand or an artist, stick to it, and just adapt to reality.
Do famous people suck, as the lighter you recently posted says?
That’s just a fun lighter. Most people I meet and know are nice. Sure, there are people who suck, but it’s important to try to see the good in people. Everyone has a good side; it just sometimes takes time to find it.
How’s your relationship with fame? Do you consider yourself famous?
I’m ok with it. As a designer, you rarely become really famous. The product you make is usually too expensive for the general public. When you are a singer, your music is probably streamed, so the cost of admiring your work is significantly lower. Same for movie stars; everything eventually goes to streaming, so the product you make is accessible. The creative directors behind the brands are mostly less popular than the brands themselves.
Happy ten years of Vetements! This year marks the 10th anniversary of your brand, and for us, this number represents our 18th anniversary, with the addition of being our 50th edition. From the fantastic show of last season, I can tell you wanted to go all in for the celebration. What do milestones like this represent for you? Did everything related to the collection turn out just as you imagined?
Congratulations on your anniversary! It is nice to be back on the womenswear schedule in Paris. The show we had in March was the first show in a very long time during Womenswear Fashion Week. Our actual ten-year anniversary will be in September, so we are working on a very big and exciting collection for it.
The collection was more oversized than ever; I read sixteen times? When it comes to oversized clothing, all I think about is comfort and cosiness. There’s something about being covered by wide, soft fabric that feels safe. Does wearing something 16XL feel sixteen times more comfortable, or, on the contrary, does it stop being a comfort and start being a weight one has to carry?
I have been fascinated with oversized clothes since I was a child. Then I would put on my parents’s clothes; it felt so cool and right. Martin Margiela has always been my big inspiration, and in my head, he did the big, oversized collections. Looking at his oversized work now, it actually has the sizing of our regular commercial collection, which is big but not crazy big. I wanted to make the biggest clothes possible that you can still wear. We first went to 10XL and it still seemed too small. After many trials, we ended up at 16XL. People are often confused, thinking we just took clothes and sized them up. The process is technically extremely complicated to find the right proportions, so it still looks good and authentic but remains wearable at the same time.
Talking about something big, you’ve said you want to be the biggest thing in fashion. Can you define what this means for you? Has there been anyone who has achieved that level, in your opinion, or do you aim to be the first one?
A journalist wrote this, but I never said this myself. Designers usually have a time frame in which their work is considered relevant. Historically, it’s about ten years if you work for the same brand. This is why many go from one house to another – to extend their time and relevance in the industry. Karl Lagerfeld is someone I look up to, and he is the only one who managed to stay relevant until the very end. It might be interesting to look at the music industry, where it’s common to reinvent yourself between eras. That may be the key! As long as reinvention makes you stay true to your core values.
You exude a very confident aura that feels genuine at the same time. Have you always believed in yourself? Has this confidence been natural for you, or have you had to work towards it?
As I went through war when I was a kid and saw many really bad things, bad things make you stronger. I appreciate the life I have and really like my work. You need to have fun doing what you want to do and be grateful for everything that comes your way.
You have a great personal style, and I find your fascination with watches really interesting. How do you choose from your wide collection which one you will wear every day?
I’m super chill about what I wear. Same with watches. It somehow all comes together without me thinking about it too much or giving it too much attention. It's like being a chef in a kitchen; when you need to cut onions, you don't think about how to cut them; you know how to do it subconsciously.
What is it about collecting that appeals to you so much? Do you find more joy in the process of collecting or in appreciating the full outcome all together?
It's both, more appreciation though; otherwise, it’s hoarding.
This can also apply to life. Do you enjoy the process in the same way you enjoy the result, or are these different types of joy?
I really enjoy the process. The process is extremely important. You cannot get a result without a process.
How did fashion appear in your life? What was the first contact with it that made you feel like it could be something relevant for you?
I always knew. For as long as I remember, I knew that fashion was the only thing I wanted to do. The society I lived in was trying to convince me differently. But for me, I knew that one way or another, those dreams would one day come true.
How has the meaning of dressing up and clothes changed throughout your life?
It has always been a part of my life. I think at the moment, because of work, I spend less time on my personal dressing and more time on creating clothes for other people.
I like a concept that exists in music where some songs are said to be “meant to be.” You know, the type of song you listen to and every piece that forms it – every melody and lyric – feel like it was meant to exist in that way and that it was just waiting for the right person to bring it to life. Could you see Vetements being this for you? Would you say you found it, or did it find you?
I consider myself the parent of Vetements. It needed me to exist and come to life, but it has its own life now. We managed to build a strong DNA for the brand that is very authentic to our roots.
Is Vetements a product of its circumstances? Do you think it could have existed in any other period different from this one, or is it tightly linked to our current context?
Vetements is definitely linked to the current context. The time and circumstances were right and absolutely perfect. I also think we had a lot of luck. I don't think, in today's world, it would be possible to recreate.
How do you see the current situation playing out for younger designers and kids who dream to create? I think you are a good person to ask since you can have a realistic opinion about both sides, the creative and the economic.
If you want to have your own brand, you need to understand, both creatively and economically, what's going on. I’m happy that since I was given the Creative Director position, I was able to step away from CEO duties and concentrate on creativity, collections, and image. There are some talented young people out there, but it’s a very tough industry. You need to be aware that everyone will try to fuck you over one way or another. You need to be very patient and extremely hardworking, or you can choose an easier way and go to work for a big structure.
You’ve said, “We don’t want to start anything that loses money. I’d rather make money.” Is this mindset one that’s acquired with age? Because I’m not sure if new generations can think about it in the same way, don’t you think?
If you want to survive having your own brand, you will need to pay the bills; otherwise, it’s a very expensive hobby. It’s like you need food in order to live; you need financial means in order to have a brand. That quote, though, is from a long time ago.
How important is formal education for you? Is there an inherent elitism in the way fashion education is set up, where only a few can access it? Does it really have an impact on the lengths you can reach in your career?
Absolutely not important. It is helpful to put your foot in the door. You can have all the diplomas in the world, but those diplomas don’t buy you talent. Talent is something that you either have or don’t have. It’s like the colour of your eyes; you are born with it. You can learn more in today’s world by yourself, than going to a big fancy school.
The source of creativity is almost infinite; where is the origin of yours? Where does your universe start?
Often, I see dreams, and in these dreams, I see clothes. Those dreams are sometimes very intense, and I see the full collection. The entire 16XL masked collection, I saw it in a dream six months before we showed it. That show ended up being ranked in the top two most-viewed shows of all shows last year.
Some find inspiration in positive emotions, while others find deeper and more profound concepts on their darkest side. How does it work best for you?
My inspiration is everyday life. People I see on the street, films I watch, and books I read. My inspirations are clothes, or certain memories sometimes.
For you, creating something new means going in the opposite direction from what everyone else is doing. Do you believe what you’re doing is still something new? When Vetements started, it was undoubtedly something not seen before, but I feel like now, with the overexposure we’re all subjected to, it's more difficult to create something that completely differs from everything else.
Everything we have ever done keeps getting copied so shamelessly that I refuse to fight at this point. I prefer to just do what feels right, put on noise-cancelling AirPods, and concentrate on the clothes I make. If you watch Forrest Gump, Forrest just starts running, and everyone keeps running after him. Forrest doesn't care or mind who is running beside him; he runs because he wants to run.
Have we lost sensitivity when it comes to fashion? Are we so used to everything that it is hard for us to find enjoyment in it anymore? Is it the consumer's fault or the industry's fault?
GG: The industry is trying too hard but, at the same time, not trying enough to do something exciting. Consumers are fully dedicated to their screens and are bored very quickly. So, at this point, there is no right or wrong, and as a brand, you need to be extremely creative to remain relevant.
You’ve talked about how you consider Vetements your child, and I love this analogy because it gives space to ask about many metaphors with it: has it been an easy child to raise or a kind of problematic one?
Vetements is a child who is very stubborn and knows exactly who it is. It’s not easy to raise, but it is not problematic. Considering that I'm a single dad, it puts extra pressure on me.
Any rebellious phase that made you maybe question your role as a parent or feel doubtful about its future?
I don’t think so. The most associated phrase of Vetements is: “May the bridges I burn, light the way!”
As with kids, there’s always a moment when one needs to let them go. Do you conceive your child to follow a path when you’re not in charge of it, or will it necessarily have to be under your lead for as long as it exists?
It’s ten years old this year. It’s too young. Give it another ten years.
I’ve been to Georgia a couple of times, and it’s a fascinating place to me. From an outsider’s perspective, I have my own vision of it, but how do you see your country from your eyes? What does Georgia mean to you? How is your relationship with your country now? Do you go often?
I absolutely love my country. It means everything to me. I miss it a lot, but my work schedule is too crazy at the moment. Also, since my grandma passed away, the idea of going there is very hurtful, as is the acknowledgement that she is not there if I go. I still think about her daily, and it’s funny that my brain switches to Georgian language at that moment.
There’s something very special going on in the fashion scene in Tbilisi. It’s very unique; the young people are incredibly passionate and have a strong sense of using clothes and art as a liberating form of self-expression in a way that I haven’t seen in other cities. Do you think this is a direct response to the country’s history? What is it about Georgians that makes them so unique and interesting?
Art and music are integrated into Georgian DNA. People are extremely creative and talented. Also, as a Georgian, you are born with a certain taste. Even with no financial means, Georgians manage to be extremely well dressed, especially Georgian women.
You’ve lived in many places and cities throughout your life; how has this multicultural background influenced your view of the world?
I think I have a refugee soul. I always feel that I need to move somewhere. Those experiences made me who I am, and I’m grateful for every place I lived. I’m currently super happy with Switzerland; it’s the right place for me to be at the moment.
When you were younger, you wrote a book that has been described as a self-help book, A Guide to Spiritual Management. Can you tell me what prompted you to write it? In what situation was your life?
That book was something that needed to be written, and I think I was just a messenger to bring it to life. I recently found a copy, reread it, and have started to use some of the methods and suggestions in my daily life.
How old were you when you wrote it? I don’t know if you’ve heard about this, but apparently at around 25, the frontal lobe in your brain fully develops, which is the one in charge of taking rational decisions and, in general, a mature way of thinking. I find it interesting how it’s around this age when you worked on your book. If you think about it this way, does it make sense, or is it completely unrelated?
I was actually 25 when I was writing it. I stopped drinking when I was 25, and it was a turning point in my life.
You most recently worked on VTMNTS Uncensored but this one is more graphic-oriented. Have you considered getting into other narrative ventures?
Narrative ventures require a lot of extra time, currently my priority is Vetements. Maybe one day I will write another book.
Certain decisions are hard to make; the harder the decision, the stronger you become, as you quoted in an Instagram caption. What has been a decision you have taken that you consider has made you stronger?
I think every decision you make makes you stronger as a person. In life, you just need to be genuine about who you are. You need to be respectful and give love to everyone, even people who are shitty to you.
This edition of our magazine circles around the concept of the present. Looking back at your past, reflecting on where you are, and awaiting the future, what balance do you make of your right here right now?
Right here and right now are the only things that matter. The past is history, so who cares? Just learn from it and don’t make the same mistakes. The future is a mystery; let it surprise you!
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All clothes from Vetements Fall/Winter 2024-2025 collection.
