That's always the question, and then we have to say, always: “When we were little, we used to make dresses for my Barbie doll.” (laughs) It's true. I know, and it is the same for Joris, what we both really like about fashion, and why we both wanted to become fashion designers is because fashion is like an art form that is so much about image, and identity, and expression. Because it tells so much about who a person is or who a person can be – and that makes it so intriguing. Also, what I really like about it is that it connects to so many things. It connects with theater, it connects to photography, it connects to set design… All this different elements can come together in fashion.

I think, yeah… I mean what we do and what we try to do is making our fantasy or our fascinations come to life. So that's very similar to how I imagined it to be when I was little. But maybe when we were younger we had a bit more of an idea about this glamourous lifestyle. It is actually very hard work; you live a bit of a monk lifestyle, you know. You have to be very dedicated. But when you love your work; if your work is a big part of who you are, then it is not such a problem. 

Well, we are not quite there yet, but what we really try to say is that fashion, and also 'we' as humans, tend to really look at people like: “Okay, you're a boy and you're a girl.” And you are one of the two: there is a box, and there is another box. Fashion brands, especially the larger brands – though it's starting to shift a bit – project this image: you have to be blond, blue eyes, tall, and you cannot eat cause you have to be skinny. If you don't look like that you're ugly; so you really should try to look like that. And I think what we are trying to say is that everybody should be able to be who they are, instead of trying to be something that someone’s telling them to be, you know. If you want to be a boy that wears dresses, I don't care, that's you. And I think that's the whole thing we mean by human. I don't want to tell you what you are, what you can or cannot wear. It is so important that you feel a certain freedom to develop yourself in the way that you are. Especially now with how everything is going with the world, and you see this upcoming racism and sexism – it's still so relevant to talk about it. Because if we stop making differences between people, I think the world will look a lot better. So every time, when people ask us: “What is your target audience, who’s your target client?” We don't have any. Anyone who wants to wear us or feels attracted to our brand should be free – it should be free.

Absolutely. I think we should stop telling people what's ugly. I think we should start telling people to just go for it! Embrace yourself; I think there is only one thing that is really beautiful, only one thing that is really sexy, and that's owning yourself. 

I think fashion is so complicated, there are so many things you can say about fashion… But I think the interesting thing about fashion is – and you can see that through all history of humankind – that it has always been representing how society is doing. Just like how fashion changes when the economy is up, and how fashion changes when the economy goes down. So I think, if you analyse fashion, you can also analyse society. And you can also see that we are stuck in a capitalistic system right now, that is not necessarily working that well. You can see, people are fed up with beauty standards. And I think that translates into fashion.

I think it always starts with me and Joris talking about a lot of things; about life, and maybe also about fashion. Every collection is a development of something. Our last collection was a lot about consumerism, and about taking 'fat' as a symbol of people always wanting more – I think we always try to connect our ideas of design to a fascination or something that really strikes us as relevant and important. I think every collection is a sort of search for answers. We try to analyse things, or to play with things that we find so strange and so weird. And it is also a thing with fashion: I can hate, totally hate and be disgusted by a Victoria Secrete show, but at the same time love it so much… So I guess almost every collection is a lot about this love-hate relationship with fashion – a lot of contradictions about life, and fashion and the world.

I like that you call it surrealistic. I recognise what you say – we are very collagy and I think we use a lot of ideas and things that we see, but then we fuck it up a little bit I guess. The next collection? It's going to be called Faux Cosmetics, and we are going to draw lots of inspiration from make-up and the beauty industry. We're going to talk a lot about identity, realness and fakeness. We are going to talk also a lot about the interesting side of faded beauty – like the beauty behind something destroyed. All these kind of things, we are going to mix it together in this weird make-up inspired themes.

The funny part is that we both, me and Joris, aren't party-animals. We really like the aesthetic, and what we like about watching people going out in New York, or in early 2000s is that when people go out, they let go and wear whatever the fuck they want, they don't care! It doesn't matter because in a club, you can let yourself go, there are no consequences. I think that's the inspiring thing. I wish we could dress up like we were going to a club, in the daytime. It would be so nice. Bring the club into normal life! 

I think people are really afraid of others judging them. Other people thinking that they're weird – they're scared of being bullied, scared of being locked out. I think it has a lot to do with people being scared. And also it has a lot to do with people being actually quite mean and unforgiving to each other. You know, when a big girl wears something tight, the first comment people make is not: “Whoo, she looks nice.” No, but : “How brave of her” That so fucked up! That's her body, I mean what brave about it? Can she not look nice?

The whole atmosphere for next collection is a bit like: “I'm still wearing my gown that I worn to a gala, two days ago. And my make up is on my chin, and I'm smoking a cigarette and I don't care.” I think it is the ultimate glamour all the way, even if you look like shit. It's an ode to glamour, even if it's faded.