“Fuck his bitch; break his heart!” The heaving, sweat-soaked crowd shouted back as one breath, as one voice. bbymutha, aka Britnee Moore, smiled infectiously as they bopped their head in time to the bass – reverberating through each and every person squeezed into the tiny room at London’s Corsica Studios. Sitting in her power, bbymutha claims and owns the stage despite distancing herself from heavily choreographed performances. Her stage presence is awe-inspiring. They hold the attention of the room with nothing more than their eclectic, interweaving beats, and their precisely-delivered lyrics – as upfront and hilarious as she is in her day-to-day life.
Interview taken from METAL Magazine issue 45. Adapted for the online version. Order your copy here.
A true DIY artist, bbymutha answers to no one. Navigating experiences with a series of abusive men – including her father –, juvenile detention, and mental health struggles, not to mention the ongoing pressures of racism, single parenthood, and a toxic, competitive mainstream music industry, bbymutha has emerged an unapologetic master of not giving a shit about other people’s unwarranted opinions. But they do care deeply about three things: their kids, their own healing through creativity and spirituality, and speaking their truth to challenge the structures that oppress so many.
Your music and career are such incredible examples of the power of DIY music- making. I know you first began recording through your cell phone and releasing music as Cindyy Kush. How do you navigate the pressures on you to align with the industry?
I don’t even know how I navigate it. I do a lot of cussing people out because it’s frustrating for people to try and project what they want you to be onto you when you already know what you want to be. I just stand my ground – that’s the only way that I know how to navigate that shit. Because people try to tell you, “Oh, you’re not doing enough,” or, “You’re not successful enough,” but I know I am.
For sure! And do you think that this has an impact on your creative output?
It frustrates me so much that it just makes me want to go harder and create more. I’m not trying to prove anything to anybody but myself, but I find comfort in knowing that even though I’m not mainstream, I’m just as talented – ifnotmore–andIworkjustashard–ifnotmore–than mainstream people. And I don’t want the other stuff that comes with the mainstream shit. I feel like people try to bully you into that because they want access to not treat you like a human. I think that’s the issue – I’m way too human and they don’t like that.
That’s a great outlook to have on it all. I feel like the DIY and underground movements also push back against the capitalist expectations of the mainstream industry. I know you quit your job because you were “tired of having your financial status at the mercy of an employer” to pursue music. You also often talk about how racism, colourism, and capitalism systemically hold up sexism and violence against Black femmes. Do you think that the past year – with us being in lockdown with Covid and all – has opened people’s eyes more to the harms of capitalism and the structures within which we’re currently expected to work?
It has, but we’re kind of stuck in it now. It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation – it’s sad. Personally,
I know a lot of people who quit their jobs this year, but now they’re in this whole other sector of capitalism where everybody owns a business – that’s what’s being pushed on you. Hustle culture is very dangerous. I started a business in 2020 – right before the pandemic. I 10/10 would not recommend unless it’s really what you want to do. But don’t do it because you think that’s what you’re supposed to be doing – or because you think that’s the answer to working for somebody else – because it’s very hard. It’s very time-consuming. You literally have to work all the frickin’ time.
I feel like it’s even deeper than capitalism because there are all these other problems that you have to worry about, like taxes. It’s so much more than people try to make it out to be – it’s not just selling fucking jewellery on the internet. We’re being bamboozled into that lifestyle. And when we get there, we’re not aware of what it takes. Look at how Instagram is the mall now – everybody is trying to sell shit to everybody. This is definitely late-stage capitalism, and it’s so gross.
I know a lot of people who quit their jobs this year, but now they’re in this whole other sector of capitalism where everybody owns a business – that’s what’s being pushed on you. Hustle culture is very dangerous. I started a business in 2020 – right before the pandemic. I 10/10 would not recommend unless it’s really what you want to do. But don’t do it because you think that’s what you’re supposed to be doing – or because you think that’s the answer to working for somebody else – because it’s very hard. It’s very time-consuming. You literally have to work all the frickin’ time.
I feel like it’s even deeper than capitalism because there are all these other problems that you have to worry about, like taxes. It’s so much more than people try to make it out to be – it’s not just selling fucking jewellery on the internet. We’re being bamboozled into that lifestyle. And when we get there, we’re not aware of what it takes. Look at how Instagram is the mall now – everybody is trying to sell shit to everybody. This is definitely late-stage capitalism, and it’s so gross.
It’s definitely super gross. So, do you think that there’s any way in which we can convert this awakening into action that actually makes a difference to how the world will look in the future?
I think we’re fucked; it’s a wrap (laughs). I think about the state of the planet, and I think it’s time for a reset. Humans have ruined everything. I want to be optimistic about it, but I have kids and I have to be honest with myself. Maybe something will happen – hell, maybe Jesus will come back. At this point, anything could happen, because what the fuck is this timeline? They just came up with the US SpaceForce. I feel like everybody’s losing their mind. This is humanity’s last spiral, and it’s almost over.
(Laughs.) Oof. Do you find that hard or do you find comfort in that?
At first I found it hard – I definitely don’t find comfort in it –, but I’m just indifferent to it now. The older I get, the more pointless I realise life actually is. Especially because of the time that I’m in. I guess if I was alive in the 1970s, then my legacy could live on, but if I die and the apocalypse happens 10 years after that, and the Earth resets – then what are they going to do? Find digital fossils of my music? I feel like whatever I’m doing now is the most important for right now. I’m just trying to enjoy every day that I have left.
I hear you! But I think, even in the context of our future while we’re still alive, there’s scope for some things to shift. I know that you also talk a lot about freeing ourselves from the patriarchy and the violence that men inflict on people of marginalised genders. Do you think the arts, especially music and lyrics, have a role to play in challenging this patriarchal violence?
I honestly think it’s the same thing – it’s another lost cause. The patriarchy is so deep that women are almost just as awful as men to other women, but we fool ourselves into thinking that we can’t be bad people. Even the bitches that listen to my music – still be some very fucked up bitches. They sing my lyrics, and then turn around and talk crazy to me because I didn’t do something that they think I should be doing. As a humanity, not everybody but overall, a lot of people are lost and they don’t care about anything outside of what the internet is using as a buzzword. Instagram ruined the world. People are willing to say anything, do anything, align themselves with anything, for attention. To the point that they trick themselves into thinking they believe in it, knowing damn well they don’t. I hate to be so pessimistic (laughs). But I sit back every day and watch people be fucking idiots, and it’s very disappointing.
It’s a shame, isn’t it? Because a part of me still really wants to believe things that I do and say can make a difference. But it’s so terrible that people listen to your music, say they believe what you’re saying, but still act terribly. That’s why I love and relate to your outlook, that it’s best to just be yourself because people are always going to find things to dislike about you. I personally came really into myself over the past year, with lockdown and everything, away from the public eye, and started expressing myself, especially my queerness, more openly. Have you felt that the space from constant public interaction that lockdown afforded impacted your relationship with yourself in any way?
I definitely feel like I’ve outgrown referring to myself as a woman. I don’t think that I’m non-binary, but I also don’t think that it matters. I grew up with an attraction to people, and I had to categorise it as bisexual – because that’s what you’re told you are if you’re attracted to men and women. Then you grow up and realise: I just like who I like. But you’ve already started trying to put yourself into these boxes. Also, as a person that is considered a public figure, if you announce something, then they try to hold you to certain things. But I don’t have to be a queer person like anyone else – every gay or queer person is unique. So, I just stopped calling myself anything – I’m not a girl, I’m not a boy; I’m not gay, I’m not straight. I’m just a person.
Yeah, I totally get that!
Because it gets so frustrating. The last time I was in Europe, I posted a picture of myself and I called myself a dyke. Lesbian Twitter lit my ass up, and I was like, okay, I don’t have to use that word. But they were trying to invalidate a part of my life. Yeah, I can ‘pass’ as straight – whatever that means. Because I’m dating a man, I pass as straight? But they don’t understand that with men, there’s this weird competition when they know that you also like women. My baby father was very abusive to me because he knew I liked women. You don’t know what I’ve been through as a queer woman to just invalidate a part of me because I could be straight? What even is straight-passing? A lesbian who doesn’t have a girlfriend at the time could pass as straight if identity is based on who you’re dating. That pissed me off, and that’s when I started thinking, I don’t even know if I’m bisexual. I don’t know what the fuck I am.
ut I don’t want to be sitting arguing with lesbians. So, in the past few years, I have just separated myself from that because it doesn’t matter to me. I know some people hold on to it and it means something to them – everybody wants somewhere to belong. But I belong to myself. I don’t need a group of people to champion or rally behind. That space made me realise I’m just a person at the end of the day. One thing I really can’t escape from is I’m Black (laughs). I already have to carry that around, so I’m not trying to add more because it’s hard enough.
ut I don’t want to be sitting arguing with lesbians. So, in the past few years, I have just separated myself from that because it doesn’t matter to me. I know some people hold on to it and it means something to them – everybody wants somewhere to belong. But I belong to myself. I don’t need a group of people to champion or rally behind. That space made me realise I’m just a person at the end of the day. One thing I really can’t escape from is I’m Black (laughs). I already have to carry that around, so I’m not trying to add more because it’s hard enough.
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This is an argument that pops up really often on Twitter, and it’s just so confusing to me. I understand that ‘dyke’ is a slur that’s been reclaimed by the lesbian community, but it’s surely also a word that would’ve been used to insult all women who like other women, whether they were lesbians or bisexual. There’s a lot of bi-erasure even from within the community, and the whole idea of ‘straight-passing’ only feeds into that.
Especially as a Black woman – even women that aren’t gay get called manly, dykes. Let’s not act like that is exclusive to women who only date women, please. But I just don’t say it anymore because it’s not that important to me. I have an extensive vocabulary; I can call myself anything else. I don’t have to use a word that’s going to offend people who haven’t done anything to me.
Of course – it’s important to respect other people’s feelings in this journey. You were talking about how you already have to carry the weight of being a Black woman. In society, Black women are often pigeonholed into certain stereotypes – either being desexualised and ‘Mammyed’ or being hypersexualised and fetishised. Your lyrics are so sex-positive in a very genuine way. How do you navigate society’s expectations on Black women while expressing sexual liberation and desire through your music and lyrics?
Most men are scared of me because of the content I make. I don’t only talk about my sexuality, I also emasculate men. I feel like they be scared to try me, so I don’t have to deal with a lot of people over-sexualising me. I also just don’t play into the politics of femininity, so I think that helps, fortunately. I know with people like Doja Cat and Megan Thee Stallion, people always comment on their bodies. I don’t deal with it on a level that I’ve seen other girls deal with.
I think it’s all about the presentation. In my experience, if you present yourself in a way that says, “I can’t be touched,” then I don’t think people are going to try you. Megan Thee Stallion has a very aggressive demeanour in the same way that I do, but I feel like she’s still very sexual in her presentation. Unfortunately, that makes people feel like it’s okay to sexualise her because she’s so comfortable with her body. I wish it didn’t – because you should be able to be as confident with yourself as you want, and when people approach you sexually it should still be consensual.
I think it’s all about the presentation. In my experience, if you present yourself in a way that says, “I can’t be touched,” then I don’t think people are going to try you. Megan Thee Stallion has a very aggressive demeanour in the same way that I do, but I feel like she’s still very sexual in her presentation. Unfortunately, that makes people feel like it’s okay to sexualise her because she’s so comfortable with her body. I wish it didn’t – because you should be able to be as confident with yourself as you want, and when people approach you sexually it should still be consensual.
Definitely. Obviously, it’s important to have conversations around the role that men play in breaking consent too. On another topic, since you’ve been talking a bit about other Black women in the industry, I love that you call yourself the antichrist of female rap. You also say that you’re not here to save hip-hop – that the focus of your music is on yourself. It’s so cool that you manage to ignore the competition that the industry must place on you and just do you. Why do you think the world pits women, especially Black women in the rap world, against one another?
I have no damn idea. Because even though I am an artist, I’m still a fan. I’m the biggest Doja Cat stan, I’m a big Megan fan. It’s just one of those things that doesn’t make sense. Because all of those girls are so different, but people still compare them to each other. For example, Latto – I feel like, stylistically, she’s more like me, but recently, she did a video that was more of a pop-y situation. People used to say she was boring – she’s a really good rapper, I really like Latto – but now everyone’s saying she’s trying to be like Doja Cat. So you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Yeah, people expect artists to exist for their entertainment rather than appreciating the fact that you’re creating something because you want to, and you’re putting it out in the world.
Right, because I could just as much make my music and keep it to myself. And I’m happy that there are people that enjoy it and are willing to pay for it. But that’s not primarily what it was for, ever.
Exactly. So how do you overcome this scarcity mindset to focus on your own work and your own growth?
It’sjustbecauseIdon’twanttobeapartofthatspace – so it never even crosses my mind. I don’t care about a lot of stuff that people expect me to. I don’t want to go to an awards show – if I ever get a chance to, it would still be a big deal; I would go just to see what it’s like, to have the experience. But that’s not a goal of mine. I have completely different reasons for doing this. I respect everybody else’s reasons, but it’s just not what I’m here for.
That makes complete sense. Speaking of your reasons for doing all this, I love that you’ve consistently collaborated with Rock Floyd, who is also credited on your new EP, Cherrytape. Is collaboration important to you as a musical artist?
We‘ve grown up together, so we understand each other. It’s like a good childhood friend; you know what each other likes. We just started working with each other out of nowhere, and that’s the person that understands my core sound the most. It just makes it easier to get work done because you don’t have to explain yourself to anybody.
I get that – I feel that way about the kind of people that I organise with in the community. I think it’s a similar space of not having to explain yourself, and collaborating with other people who are on a similar wavelength to you can create a space for a lot of growth. Do you think collaboration and community have a role to play in creating a better world for everyone?
I think they do, but everybody’s so busy fighting – especially in the United States. My family isn’t very supportive, so I’ve just had to build my own family. And it is possible, but sometimes even the people that you thought were always gonna be there end up not being there. People outgrow each other.
People are so angry right now – rightfully so – but they’re mad at the wrong people. There’s crazy racism at home – I’m sure you’ve seen what goes on in the US. At least racists are honest. I don’t want no white person who wishes that I was dead, or doesn’t want me to exist, pretending to be my friend. I understand how discrimination works – but everybody’s discriminatory to a certain extent; everybody has their preconceived notions about people. It’s not nice, and it’s not okay, but that’s just how people are. I just wish that if they don’t like us so much, they would just go away. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with segregation; maybe that wasn’t a bad idea (laughs). Because why would you want to sit in the same place as people that don’t even fucking like you. I feel like communities could exist, but everybody’s just too busy fighting. Now we’ve got vaccinated versus unvaccinated. That’s where I’ve been detaching myself from the labels.
People are so angry right now – rightfully so – but they’re mad at the wrong people. There’s crazy racism at home – I’m sure you’ve seen what goes on in the US. At least racists are honest. I don’t want no white person who wishes that I was dead, or doesn’t want me to exist, pretending to be my friend. I understand how discrimination works – but everybody’s discriminatory to a certain extent; everybody has their preconceived notions about people. It’s not nice, and it’s not okay, but that’s just how people are. I just wish that if they don’t like us so much, they would just go away. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with segregation; maybe that wasn’t a bad idea (laughs). Because why would you want to sit in the same place as people that don’t even fucking like you. I feel like communities could exist, but everybody’s just too busy fighting. Now we’ve got vaccinated versus unvaccinated. That’s where I’ve been detaching myself from the labels.
It’s interesting that you talk about how segregation was potentially positive in some ways. It’s obviously not my place to comment on at all. But I did read something once about how the schools and the facilities were so much better in some areas because Black people were creating these spaces for themselves and were offering the best opportunities to each other.
Yeah, and now we’re in these spaces where we’re begging to be accepted by these people, even years after segregation. Why aren’t they giving us awards at the Grammys? Because they don’t fucking like us! Stop trying to make these people like us. They don’t see our art as art. They don’t even see us as human – why would you think they would give us an award unless some money or politics were involved? I get tired of that shit; I don’t care to be in a space where people don’t want me.
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This is why I work quite hard to create safe and fun spaces for queer people. Because I’m tired of asking others to see trans people or non-binary people as humans. Let’s make our own space and be happy in that space – and love each other.
Exactly! That makes the most sense to me. Because, of course, there’s going to be some pushback and you’re going to get hate. They want to make the situation uncomfortable for you because they didn’t want you there in the first place. Maybe it’s not the easiest thing to do. But even if it was a small get-together that starts at your home for non-binary people, and y’all fundraise for an actual space, it’s really possible.
I completely agree. And, going back to what I was saying earlier, I do think that those spaces that you create with the people that you feel safe with – and where you support one another – have the power to bring about change. Not to change other people’s minds, maybe, but at least in keeping people safe and providing them with support.
Yes, and that’s how you can feel like you belong somewhere. Instead of clinging so hard to these titles, actually have a sense of community. We need community. But everybody has to do better.
Thank you for sharing this with me. I also wanted to talk about the role that Black people have played in creating these community spaces and driving change. Of course, Black women have always played such an integral role in the feminist movement, for example Angela Davis, who also speaks at length about abolitionism. I know that you spent some time in psychiatric care avoiding juvenile detention. What are your thoughts on the prison industrial complex and abolitionism?
I feel like some people definitely deserve to be in jail – but maybe not in jail as it is now. It’s a dead end. So maybe a rehabilitation situation. Except maybe people like R. Kelly – he’s already had a second chance, this is his second trial for the same shit!
I have a brother that was in jail. I spent a lot of time, when I was younger, going to juvenile – I used to get in trouble. I’ve dated guys that got locked up. I just know that when they come home, they’re completely different people – and not in a good way. My brother is one of the most paranoid people and his temper is so short. He gets frustrated so fast and he just snaps. That’s what jail does to people. And not everybody that’s in jail is even guilty. So there definitely needs to be some sort of reform. Because jail as it is now is really inhumane, and it’s illegal slavery. I don’t think getting rid of it completely is the change that we need, not when rapists and serial killers exist. A lack of policing doesn’t mean an increase in crime, but I also know that if we have a system in play, we can know what to do.
I have a brother that was in jail. I spent a lot of time, when I was younger, going to juvenile – I used to get in trouble. I’ve dated guys that got locked up. I just know that when they come home, they’re completely different people – and not in a good way. My brother is one of the most paranoid people and his temper is so short. He gets frustrated so fast and he just snaps. That’s what jail does to people. And not everybody that’s in jail is even guilty. So there definitely needs to be some sort of reform. Because jail as it is now is really inhumane, and it’s illegal slavery. I don’t think getting rid of it completely is the change that we need, not when rapists and serial killers exist. A lack of policing doesn’t mean an increase in crime, but I also know that if we have a system in play, we can know what to do.
Totally. When we talk about abolitionism, I don’t mean completely get rid of the structure. I think the funding should be directed towards community-centred rehabilitation programmes and services that offer mental health support. I just feel like these punitive measures, where if you do something illegal – or if you’re perceived to be doing something illegal by the police – you’re punished in such an extreme way that’s controlled by the state, don’t actually inspire people to act well. I think if you instill an idea of community care into society, then it’s more likely to be effective.
Right, yes – that’s definitely how I feel as well. There are people that are in jail for selling drugs for the same amount of time as people that are in there for murdering people – that’s fucked up. And then when you factor in the fact that it’s probably because of the colour of their skin, that’s even more fucked up. Something about the whole judicial system needs to be redone. All this shit is out of date; it’s expired. All the people – like George Washington – that came up with these laws and rules are dead and gone. Not once has anybody thought to look back at all this shit and decide that it’s time to upgrade.
Do you think that enough care is provided in these systems for people with mental health struggles? If not, how can this be improved, in your opinion?
When I got locked up, I was in Florida. I beat the fuck out of my teacher because she was being mean to me – she pinched me. I don’t even remember doing it; I just remember that her face was all bloody. In Florida, it’s zero tolerance – if you beat up a teacher, you’re going to jail. The only reason that I knew to say anything about killing myself is because I read a lot. I wasn’t actually suicidal, but with all of the things that I had gone through that year, something was definitely wrong – I didn’t care about school anymore. I got the help that I needed in the hospital, but then it was time for me to go home. Black people have a really big stigma around mental health. So, they were trying to put me on three different types of medication – medication for ADHD, for depression, and for anxiety – but my mum was like, she’s not doing that.
And what happened?
I finally did get medicated for my ADHD, but that just made me feel like a zombie. When I grew up, I was also able to get medication for depression and anxiety, but the depression medication made me suicidal and the anxiety medication they gave me was literally Xanax. It was a recipe for disaster. So I’ve just been rawdogging [going without] all that shit – I’ve just been living my life as this slightly mentally unstable person. But I make it work every day because I have to. First of all, there’s no free healthcare in the US – it was expensive – but the medication was also making me worse. So, I’d rather live without them because I’ve learned to make [my mind] work for me. If I’m feeling paranoid, I’m going to write about it.
I know that’s probably not the same for everybody that has those issues because they’re not all creatives or artists, but that’s how I’ve learned to help myself. I don’t think any of those systems are in place to actually heal people [in the US] – especially with the opioid crisis. It’s really sad – maybe it’s better out here, but in the US it’s trash, and I really feel like they’re just waiting for all the poor people to die.
I know that’s probably not the same for everybody that has those issues because they’re not all creatives or artists, but that’s how I’ve learned to help myself. I don’t think any of those systems are in place to actually heal people [in the US] – especially with the opioid crisis. It’s really sad – maybe it’s better out here, but in the US it’s trash, and I really feel like they’re just waiting for all the poor people to die.
It’s very sad. It is better in the UK because of the NHS, but even in the past year, Covid has shown that the government doesn’t really care about the disabled or the immunocompromised – they just want them to not be a burden anymore. I very much relate to everything you’ve been saying because I also have ADHD, anxiety, and depression, and I don’t take any medication. I just do life. I liked what you were saying about making them work for you, and using music almost as a form of therapy. What role do you think healing through a creative output has to play in helping people who are marginalized and oppressed deal with the world?
I feel like that’s the basis of creativity, especially in this world. I’ve watched my friends do performance art, and by the end of it they’re crying – it just seems very therapeutic and cathartic. And people who paint have a big release. Even if it’s not creative and you just write down how you feel, that can make you feel better. It’s about getting those feelings out of yourself in some way. If you sit and hold onto it, then of course you’ll be depressed. Even if you just go outside and scream. My kids just scream for no reason – I know that feels good. As adults, we can’t scream. I feel like if we could just scream once a day, we’d probably feel a lot better. Just wake up in the morning, brush your teeth, and go scream. It’s just a point of release.
I do wish sometimes that I could go into the woods and just scream – it definitely would make me feel a lot better.
I know you don’t have guns here, but even shooting feels really good. Sorry, but having that much control over something that could potentially hurt somebody when you’re not going to hurt nobody just feels really good. It’s a good release.
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How does that play into your thoughts around gun ownership? Do you think that the gun rules in the United States are okay right now, or do you think things need to change?
I don’t know if the rules need to change, but as long as they’re the way they are, I’ll own guns. If the police and people in positions of power get to have guns, then I feel like the people should be able to have them. Because the police are crazy as hell. When everyone puts their guns away, then we can change things. Also, in the neighbourhood that I live in, I have to protect myself – I’ve got kiddies, and I’m by myself. But I do sometimes wish that guns didn’t exist because if they didn’t, then it wouldn’t be an issue.
But y’all are out here stabbing each other. That takes a lot of fucking anger. Shooting somebody is easy, but to actually just walk up to somebody and make a knife go through them... It’s crazy that so many people are that mad (laughs). If I was mad at you and I had to stab you, I’d probably just let you go.
But y’all are out here stabbing each other. That takes a lot of fucking anger. Shooting somebody is easy, but to actually just walk up to somebody and make a knife go through them... It’s crazy that so many people are that mad (laughs). If I was mad at you and I had to stab you, I’d probably just let you go.
I guess the socioeconomic inequalities that contribute to a rise in both gun and knife crime needs addressing, but you're right in that the bigger issue is that guns are wielded by those with power and privilege, like cops. You’ve just mentioned your kids there, and I think it’s awesome that you speak openly about being a mother and incorporate it into your work – and even your name. But you also say, “It’s important because it’s not important.” It’s just an aspect of who you are, but you should still be allowed to be this expansive person! Do you feel that there’s a lot of judgement that comes from society on how you should be a parent along with working on your career?
Of course there is, but I don’t give a fuck. Because they don’t help me. Whenever the light bill needed paying, or whenever my kids needed new clothes because the seasons were changing – if the people who had the most to say would just send me a couple $100 so that I could take care of that, then maybe I’d care. But none of these people that have opinions do anything for my kids, so I can’t take that seriously. Even my dad says, “You need to be at home with these kids.” He’s so mad that I’m on tour right now, but I don’t have his support at all – and I definitely don’t have my mum’s support.
Anyway, my kids love me. I feel like my kids and I have the type of relationship that if they felt like I was doing something wrong, or if I was hurting them in any way by pursuing my music career, they would tell me. I talk to my kids every day – they’re really proud of me. That’s what matters to me. People think that just because you have kids, you gotta sit down somewhere. That’s really not the case.
Anyway, my kids love me. I feel like my kids and I have the type of relationship that if they felt like I was doing something wrong, or if I was hurting them in any way by pursuing my music career, they would tell me. I talk to my kids every day – they’re really proud of me. That’s what matters to me. People think that just because you have kids, you gotta sit down somewhere. That’s really not the case.
And, how do you think your identity as a Black woman impacts this further?
I don’t feel like white women flaunt their kids in the way that Black women do. But also, they have nannies. We have to take our kids places with us because we don’t have any fucking help. There’d be times – if the show was close enough – I’d just take the kids to the show with me. It’s definitely different. Because your kids are always more in the spotlight and people focus more on the fact that you have kids. For some reason, there’s this idea that only Black women have multiple kids without being married and that is a negative. That’s why I named myself Bbymutha. There’s a lot more scrutiny.
How can we create a world where mothers are supported to thrive in every aspect of their lives, including their careers and their personal romantic lives?
First of all, everyone can mind their own goddamn business. That would be so helpful – it’d be a really huge source of support, believe it or not. Also, you know how people say, “It takes a village to raise a child”? I just feel like there are so many women that I know, including myself, that have parents and aunts and uncles, but they’re just raising these babies by themselves.
When I was growing up, my grandma had no problem with my mum dropping me off at her house so she could get something done. I’d go stay with my aunts for a weekend. I had an aunt that lived in Nashville, and I’d go in the summer for a month. It was no big deal. I don’t have that for myself. We do a lot of shit by ourselves and nobody thinks that it’s a problem because we’re so strong. They think it’s a compliment, but it’s also insulting. I don’t want to be strong all the goddamn time, I could use some help!
When I was growing up, my grandma had no problem with my mum dropping me off at her house so she could get something done. I’d go stay with my aunts for a weekend. I had an aunt that lived in Nashville, and I’d go in the summer for a month. It was no big deal. I don’t have that for myself. We do a lot of shit by ourselves and nobody thinks that it’s a problem because we’re so strong. They think it’s a compliment, but it’s also insulting. I don’t want to be strong all the goddamn time, I could use some help!
Yeah, definitely. Human society has always involved alloparenting, and it’s so sad that there seems to be this disconnect from that with the centering of the nuclear family unit. Speaking of your parents, I know that you have strong opinions on religion, especially with your childhood split between your extremely Christian mum and Muslim dad. You’ve also previously said that people should look at all religions and see that they all believe in the same stuff, so they shouldn’t be fighting over the specifics. How do you think we work towards a world where we’re not divided by religion, but rather bonded by spirituality?
It’s the same as the gay, queer, lesbian, bisexual, vaccinated, unvaccinated discussion – it’s the same thing to me. Your religion doesn’t have anything to do with me. Religion is so personal, but we take our personal things and apply them to other people. And if they don’t fall in line with what we personally want, then it’s a problem. My mum is so crazy – it makes no sense to me. She tries to disown me every three months.
I was on tour with Earl Sweatshirt, and we had a show in Colorado. There was this guy outside of the show with a megaphone saying: “Repent! Repent or you’re going to hell.” I was drunk, so I got out of the tour bus and started twerking in front of him (laughs). So, of course people were recording it and posting the video on the internet – and my mum saw it. She said, “Why would you disrespect my religion like that?” Bro, that was so funny – can you have a sense of humour? He was harassing us; he was calling all the girls in the line prostitutes for listening to my music. He came down specifically to protest me. And I can’t have some fun?
My dad is a little bit more relaxed as far as his religion goes, but nobody’s ever approached me trying to be disrespectful in the name of Allah. But he’s so misogynistic – it’s sickening and it bothers me. He tells me, “You’re supposed to be at home cooking,” and, “Why’ve you got those clothes on?” I always keep my hair cut, and he says, “Oh, you think you’re a boy.” I’m not feminine enough for my dad. He never wanted a daughter to begin with, so there’s also that. I wish my parents would just accept me for who I am. I’m not going to be a Christian or a Muslim, but I’m not trying to do anything but accomplish something in my life.
I was on tour with Earl Sweatshirt, and we had a show in Colorado. There was this guy outside of the show with a megaphone saying: “Repent! Repent or you’re going to hell.” I was drunk, so I got out of the tour bus and started twerking in front of him (laughs). So, of course people were recording it and posting the video on the internet – and my mum saw it. She said, “Why would you disrespect my religion like that?” Bro, that was so funny – can you have a sense of humour? He was harassing us; he was calling all the girls in the line prostitutes for listening to my music. He came down specifically to protest me. And I can’t have some fun?
My dad is a little bit more relaxed as far as his religion goes, but nobody’s ever approached me trying to be disrespectful in the name of Allah. But he’s so misogynistic – it’s sickening and it bothers me. He tells me, “You’re supposed to be at home cooking,” and, “Why’ve you got those clothes on?” I always keep my hair cut, and he says, “Oh, you think you’re a boy.” I’m not feminine enough for my dad. He never wanted a daughter to begin with, so there’s also that. I wish my parents would just accept me for who I am. I’m not going to be a Christian or a Muslim, but I’m not trying to do anything but accomplish something in my life.
Yeah, you’re just trying to live your life. Even though you’re not aligned with your parents’ religions, I’ve read that you found solace in spirituality for yourself while you were homeless. How does witchcraft, tarot, etc. help you navigate your life on a daily basis?
It helped me when I was homeless. But I feel so bad because since Covid started, I haven’t been that attached to my spirituality. I got lazy with it – I used to do rituals all the time, and it definitely helped keep me grounded. I can’t wait until I get to a point where I can do that again, but I’m not there right now – it’s probably why I’ve been losing my mind, because I’ve been so disconnected from my spirituality. Maybe I do understand why my mom is such a Jesus freak because maybe her religion gives her that. I have a lot of figuring out about my spirituality to do; I feel like I’m still learning who I am, spiritually. I’m sure I’ll find my way back to it but, right now, I’ve just got to finish this tour.
That makes sense; I feel like it’s almost a lifelong process. I hope your tour is going well so far – the energy at your Corsica gig was incredible! I love the songs on your latest EP, they’re for sure going to make everyone want to get on the dance f loor. What is the importance of partying and dancing to you in your life?
That tape was supposed to be representative of who I was as a 17-year-old. Cherry was my first rap name – I’m so corny (laughs). When I was 16 or 17, my cousins and I had this little rap group called Money Over N*ggas and my name was Miss Cherry Cocaine. I used to write all the raps for my cousins, and we used to be in class rapping. I’m working on two separate things right now, but one of the albums is going to have a manga attached to it. Cherry is, actually, one of the characters in the manga, so that tape was supposed to be the character introduction to who I was as a 17-year-old. That’s why it’s more upbeat, party girl. I thought that I was so grown- up – I thought that I was the baddest bitch ever – until I fucked around and got pregnant. I was also in the dance team in high school. Dancing was important to me because it was just fun to do. I thought I was so hot and confident. I liked to go to the clubs and the little house parties and just be cute and try to get male attention.
Now, I don’t feel like I dance as much as I should because I feel like it’s goofy. I’m so weird about certain things, like just performing femininity in general. Overly exaggerating my sexuality just makes me cringe. I don’t even like partying anymore; I’ve outgrown that shit. And I hate clubs – every time I go to clubs, I have a horrible time.
I feel like I’ve tainted my personal life because I’ve made myself such a public person. I was in the Truman Brewery area the other day, and three girls walked up to me. I’m OK with people walking up to me if they just speak to me. But they always do some stupid shit, like hyperventilate in your face. I can’t have an actual good time when I go out because of shit like that. My idea of a good time is just to sit at home, have some music on, do a little drugs here and there, and chill with my boyfriend. That’s my party!
Now, I don’t feel like I dance as much as I should because I feel like it’s goofy. I’m so weird about certain things, like just performing femininity in general. Overly exaggerating my sexuality just makes me cringe. I don’t even like partying anymore; I’ve outgrown that shit. And I hate clubs – every time I go to clubs, I have a horrible time.
I feel like I’ve tainted my personal life because I’ve made myself such a public person. I was in the Truman Brewery area the other day, and three girls walked up to me. I’m OK with people walking up to me if they just speak to me. But they always do some stupid shit, like hyperventilate in your face. I can’t have an actual good time when I go out because of shit like that. My idea of a good time is just to sit at home, have some music on, do a little drugs here and there, and chill with my boyfriend. That’s my party!
Dresss FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE, necklace, earrings, and cuff RUBY JACK.