If there’s one thing we can be certain of, it’s that there’s nothing certain in life. We can go from the depths of the most existential enquiries to the less concerning hesitancies about tomorrow’s weather, all without a definitive answer. Fashion is not free of this uncertainty; who will be the next creative director of this brand? How many will see what we spent hours making? Does somebody even care? Sometimes it feels like worrying too much about this sort of thing is a mistake. After all, we’re not saving lives; why lose sleep over it? Walter Van Beirendonck talks about the craft to which he has dedicated his life in such a realistic but bright and hopeful way that he manages to change the realistic but not so bright mentality I arrived to this conversation with.
Interview taken from METAL Magazine issue 51. Adapted for the online version. Order your copy here.
In Walter’s life, the colours and the joy are not only present in his garments, in his studio, or on the smiley face chair he’s sitting on — when standing up, I realise I’ve been sitting on one as well opposite him, but mine has a little wig — they have been present all along, not blurring reality but rather giving a more optimistic shade to it that gives him the certainty to tell us, “Smile! Because I have seen the future and you are in it.” The strength of your feelings towards fashion depends on how invested you are in it. It’s worth clarifying that with fashion, I’m always referring to the complex and culture-defining concept that it actually is, stepping away from the vain image the word itself for some reason has. For some, seeing the new hot runway looks, the latest gossip of who walked where, or the thousands of influencer pictures attending random shows can be fun content that appears during the mandatory scrolling time, sandwiched between cute cat videos and some trend that re-inserts an old word into the contemporary discourse, how demure! This might be preaching to the converted, but we all know fashion runs deeper than what’s online.
The goals, the values, and the core of the fashion born in pre-Internet times align more with a raw craft that can exist outside of spectacle and Walter Van Beirendonck’s trajectory is a great example of this. Back then, when the motivation came of a creativity that couldn’t be contained, and where artistic expression was a form of communication rather than a search for validation, the more brilliant minds of the industry were cultivated in an environment of mutual inspiration and admiration, without the number driven competition of who becomes more viral or who can pay the most to invite the celebrity of the year to their front row. Antwerp has historically been one of the most important cradles of this genre of designer; there must be something special for being such a fertile land for magnificence and for having enough power to make its biggest and most successful children rarely leave its borders.
We meet Walter at his colourful and warm office, a great contrast from the grey and rainy sky of the city that saw him graduate of the Royal Academy of Fine Arts alongside what’s probably the coolest group of friends to ever exist, leave in the search of adventures and opportunities, return to be a teacher, become the head of the same department that educated him, and develop his vision first in Wild & Lethal Trash and then through his namesake brand. Under his own name, Walter found a level of freedom designers of his calibre can rarely flaunt, resulting in him creating at his own pace, living life on his own terms, and spreading the knowledge and passion his vast experience has taught him while keeping on acquiring a bit more of it with each passing day.
Walter, thank you so much for taking the time to do this interview.
I’m very happy to do it!
I wanted to start this by making reference to your Spring/Summer 1990 collection and the ingenious newspaper you had in there that asked this question: who is this mysterious creature called Walter?
Oh, the “Fashion is dead” newspaper! Wow, I don’t know if I really have an answer to that, but I always felt a little bit otherworldly, like an alien. All this mystery is something that I’m really attracted to, and I’m also kind of a believer. Believer that there are other things around us, probably other dimensions, so it’s a little part of my way of thinking and also part of my way of being as a human.
If you could choose a mystical creature to identify with, which one would it be?
I pictured myself once as a kind of dragon in the 90s. I feel a little bit like that, a little heavy and a little woo woo woo with the thing in the back and a big tail and everything.
You stopped being a teacher a year ago now.
And I miss it so much.
That law doesn’t make sense; why would you have to stop teaching at 65? What about all the experience from older people?
Yeah, it’s the law, and I really missed it because I’ve been teaching since 1985. The contact with the students and also the maturity that I can use to really push them forward is something I really miss.
I know you already have plans in Italy to go back to the classroom, which is great! But I wonder what you’ve been doing with all the extra time you’ve got since your departure from the academy — does it go right into your work or have you been exploring other activities outside of it?
Yes, I worked on my books “Draw the World Awake” and “Cut the World Awake” for example. This was a project I started up right after retiring, and it was a lot of work. Then I worked probably a little bit more intensely on the brand. I did a collaboration with G-Star in this period, and then I could give more attention to the collections.
You mentioned how you like the contact with the students and the youth; did you manage to learn the codes of the new generations? Like the silly catchphrases or maybe some new words?
Well, from time to time I hear them talk, and then I ask them sometimes to tell me what it exactly means. And of course, on TikTok and on social media, there’s a lot of these words.
Oh, so you’re on TikTok!
Yeah, not actively, but I know it, and I used it. I came back from it already, but I’m rather active on Instagram; that’s something I really enjoy. I like the contact with the fans because it is something that is very different from the 80s or 90s when the contact with a fan was not existent, only if you met them on the street by coincidence, but now they can easily get in contact, and since I’m doing my Instagram myself, I really can interact and repost. It’s becoming a nice tradition.
Talking about university, I want to go back to your early days. What was a mistake you kept making then that infuriated you? I always forgot to refill the bobbins, so I ended up ghostly sewing entire pieces.
And you’re like fuck I didn’t do it (laughs).
Yeah, I think I forgot even in my last year.
I don’t remember that kind of mistake, but I do think that studying and definitely studying fashion is a lot of trial and error because it’s the way you learn. You always see errors everywhere, so it’s something that is never perfect, not even when you finish the collection. You always think that it could have been done differently, and that’s something that’s part of the creative process — making errors and afterwards trying to fix them.
I haven’t seen you discuss this before; I don’t know if you’ve talked about it somewhere and I missed it, but I’m very curious about the concept of your master’s collection.
Oh, it was about insects! A little bit alien also with the antennas. I constructed the garments in the shape of insects, with the scales, the anatomy, very big round shapes, and then very skinny arms and legs. Contrast between very tough hard fabrics, plastics, and leathers, but then also very soft angora and fake fur. Prints also with insects. In fact, it already looked like what I’m doing now.
“Studying fashion is a lot of trial and error, it’s the way you learn.”
Did you get a good grade?
Oh yes, it got a good grade. I was together with Martin [Margiela] in the class, so we were only two in the class.
Only both of you?!
That was all. Two students.
Wow, I’m already shocked now that the current master’s classes are of like twelve students, but two is crazy!
At that time, the school was really small. Me and Martin Margiela were in the class, and then the year after came the class from Ann [Demeulemeester], Dries [Van Noten], and Dirk [Van Saene].
So even if you get a low grade, you’re still the best (laughs).
Exactly (laughs). It was a really nice time at school; from the beginning I was really working with colours and experimenting with materials. Colour was very important from the beginning; it’s very noticeable.
If you did a parallel with your most recent collection, can you tie them together? Are the beginning and the end telling the same story?
Yeah, it comes all from me. It all comes from my heart and from my gut, so it’s something that’s very personal, and from the moment I graduated from the school to the years afterwards when we did all the contests and collections within Belgium, and then when we went to London, it was always very personal and really designed by me only. When I did my exhibition in the MoMu years ago, it was really nice to see all these different projects from all these years come together, because in the end it really works as one big group of designs.
And it’s all you.
It’s me in all my different aspects, from very technological choices to nature and then space and humans and humour and experiments. It’s my world.
Very nice. You must know this more than anyone, what is a common mistake of the youth that you saw reflected in your students?
They want to be famous too quickly. Once they graduate, they are so ambitious, and they really want to make it, and they want to be in the best position everywhere, and that’s not how it goes. Today, the people graduating in Antwerp, for example, have it easier to introduce themselves into big houses because there’s really a demand for them, but it’s not that you can immediately do everything. You need time to grow; you have to become more mature; you have to meet people. Their error is to think they’re going to be famous in two or three seasons.
And what is a mistake of the adults that teach these kids?
Sometimes I think students are not given enough support. And sometimes I think the adults are not patient enough, and they want results all the time. I think that you really have to support these young people so that they can come up with a result easier, and that’s very important when you are a teacher — that they don’t feel that they are alone.
You’ve always said that during your school years you often learnt more from your friends and the other students than from the teachers. What’s a lesson or something you learnt from your friends that has stayed with you up until this day?
At that time the school had a rather traditional way of teaching, and it was mainly the synergy of the group and also travelling the world and going to shows and seeing museums and doing all these things together that created a lot of energy within us. Everybody came from a different background; the tastes were very personal, and together it created this big energy bulb, which was really nice. We learnt from each other, and we were inspiring each other.
You just mentioned how you all went out a lot — to parties, concerts, everything. What was a must-have on the night adventures that would make you stay, and what was a no-go that would kill the vibe?
The music is the most important when we go out. At that time in Antwerp there was Cinderella’s Ballroom, and that was a really small place, very underground and with very alternative music. At that time it was Bowie, Patti Smith, punk also, then afterwards New Wave, so it was that kind of music. That was also the place where we loved to go and where we stayed the whole evening and the whole night. It was all rather new for us because we all came from outside Antwerp; we arrived and we were discovering the nightlife of the city.
Now that I think about it, your shows and collections feel like staying up all night partying when all it’s fun, light, and colours and then returning back home on public transportation as the sun rises, when reality hits. It’s a party on the runway, but a reality check on the show notes: is this journey through the good and bad sides of life one you’ve learnt to live with over time, or has this balance always been present in you?
No, from the beginning I was interested in using fashion to communicate, and I found it really interesting how you can make stories and statements through collections, through the garments, the t-shirts, and the slogans you make. I found it always very intriguing to find a good balance between a very colourful and very uplifting first impression, but then also to go deeper and put layers in the collections. I’ve talked about all sorts of topics, from war and peace, sustainability, and the problems with the climate to even terrorism and AIDS. In the 90s, for example, the slogan, “Safe sex”, was all over the clothes. It was very important to communicate that, but it was always in a very colourful and uplifting way, because I didn’t want to add all these rather heavy statements into a heavy look. For certain people, I’m only the one making colourful t-shirts.
Yeah, the ones who don’t get to read the show notes or look beyond the garments.
Yes, so it’s also something I like to discuss. It’s good that we can go a little bit deeper and that we don’t only have to talk about the new colour of the season.
“I still believe in the world. I’m probably naive but I believe that there are good people.”
You are a storyteller. There are many ways to tell a story, and I think you are rather straightforward with yours. Even in the show notes, you explain your collections in a way I don’t often see; it’s very informative and explanatory, and we leave understanding very clearly the idea you wanted to portray at the show. Why do you do this? Do you fear maybe it is not understood the way it was intended to? Maybe the meaning gets lost if you leave it to personal interpretations?
No, I think there is always a possibility to make your own interpretations, but I think it’s definitely important to do this kind of press release because otherwise I think you lose the message. If I’m not clear about it, you’re probably going to only see one layer, and it would be a pity. Is it not that I desperately want to tell it to everybody, but I think it’s part of the way to understand my work, to make it clear.
I always like to ask questions to designers tapping into their consumer side, as the spectator of their colleague’s work. What’s a big, often or highlightable mistake you’ve seen from others when storytelling through their collections? No names, of course.
Well, for the moment, I’m a little upset about the front rows (laughs). It’s a little bit vulgar what’s going on. I think it’s rather shocking how big houses are spending money, how the luxury products are really getting out of hand, and how extremely expensive things are shown in a very random way. Yesterday, Paco Rabanne showed the most expensive little bag with gold and diamonds. And I’m wondering why. Also, Pharrell [Williams] was walking around with the most expensive watches and then the most expensive bag in crocodile leather. It’s too much. And you can write it; I don’t mind (laughs).
It’s great that you mention the front row thing, because I had a question precisely about that. On the show of your collection “No References”, you used your toys and dolls as the audience. Did you prefer them to celebrities at the time?
That show was the first show I did after I stopped with W<, so it was a very symbolic show for me to come back to the fashion world. Of course, I was rather critical about everything that happened and how the fashion world was going, so I said to myself, I’m going to do a show, but the first row will be my toys because I can trust them (laughs).
I agree with what you said about how the current fashion works. Sometimes I get very tired of it. I’ve been a little pessimistic about it because I don’t like how everything works; a lot of people don’t really feel a love for fashion; they just love all the buzz around it. When I come to this city, I always get reminded of why I loved fashion in the first place. People in Antwerp do it for the craft; it’s not the spectacle.
Yeah, and of course there are also other designers who are still working very well and making the right statement. It’s mostly the system, which is a little bit, I guess, the poison of what is happening. It’s a little bit old school to say “when we were young,” but when we were going to Paris, when we were still students, and we were sneaking into the shows with fake invitations, it was because otherwise you could not know what was going on, because then you had to wait six months to see the collections out in the press. It had a kind of magic, and fashion people who were there to watch the show, not all these phones filming everything. It had something magical; now the magic is a bit lost.
We young people love to fantasise about the past; it’s a sort of nostalgia for a time we never lived; we’re always like, “Oh, I was born in the wrong generation.” Can you paint for me how the vibe was at that moment? How was life back then like?
It was different and really adventurous to study fashion and to realise that you eventually could make it in the fashion world. For us, the period between graduating and then finally becoming known was very exciting because we were literally locked in Belgium, mainly because the Belgian press was not going over the borders. Due to the language, nobody knew us outside Belgium, so it was really an important step to go to London and then to start up from there. It was a very creative moment in London; it was very dynamic. But then the 90s were also fantastic for me because I was able to do all these good shows and all these things. So, I think that every decade really had these very specific good things and situations. Of course it’s very nostalgic to look back, but I think that even our time has its positive sides also. Despite everything that is happening, all the drama, and all the war, for a lot of people it must be very hard to live this life, but on the other hand there are also things happening that I think are worth living.
You wouldn’t say the past was a better time.
There were also things happening; every decade has a crisis or a war. But I mean, there is always hope. I always wanted to keep a positive vibe, to keep on going, and to keep on believing. Even today, with Instagram and being in contact with people all over the world, I’m very interested in discovering a lot of new things. I’m also fascinated by artificial intelligence. It’s a very weird phenomenon, but it’s going to be very big, that’s for sure.
So, you’re not against it?
No, I’m not against it. I’m only wondering that because, with my background and my maturity, I can still see rather well what is real and what is not real. But I think that in a few years, young people will hardly see the difference, and that’s scary. For example, today I saw artificial intelligence pictures from David Bowie, and I know that they were artificial intelligence because I’ve never seen them, and I know every picture from David Bowie (laughs), but I can imagine someone younger thinking, “Oh, why was he dressing up like that in the 70s?”
They’re creating a past that didn’t exist.
Yes, and that’s going to be very scary. It’s rather important to know the past and to know what happened and how the 70s and the 80s looked. But we have to live with it, I think. It’s a natural evolution; it will never end, but I’m very curious to see where it will go.
There’s something very particular about you; it seems like the rebellious and reckless spirit of your youth has been a constant up until this day. In most people you notice, as teenagers, there’s always this spark of wanting to speak up and go against the norms that starts dimming as the years go by; adult life takes the idealistic filter out of our sight. Is working in a creative industry the key to not losing that spark?
I found it important to keep that spark and that energy. It’s very intense to work in fashion; it’s very demanding, but on the other end, I enjoy it. I like to start up a new collection, do research, do the sketches, and select fabrics, so it’s something that I really enjoy. I’m also rather fortunate that I decided in 2000 to downscale everything to make a very small studio, very manageable, very flexible. I became my own boss again. Suddenly, I was completely free. I could do what I wanted, and that really saved me from all the stress.
You never thought it was a mistake?
No, no, no, it was not a mistake. The 90s were fantastic because I had unlimited budgets to do incredible things and shows, but on the other hand, it was also an incredible pressure. If you’re working with somebody who is sponsoring you and who is putting the money on the table, you have so much responsibility for all these clients, all these agents, all these shops. It’s very heavy and intense. So, I took the decision, and it saved my life, saved my creativity, and saved my freedom. I’m really happy I did it. I work with a few people; we work very intensively and very hard, but it’s at my own pace.
For me, your Waltermann is the embodiment of all that you just said; it’s always there smiling.
Completely nude (laughs).
Yes! It’s so free and careless, so I wanted to ask the Waltermann if there’s any tips to stay forever young, unbothered, and happy.
Well, forever young, I don’t know if that’s happening. (laughs)
The figure is always looking the same. It’s not getting old! And it’s not losing its smile either.
(Laughs) It’s true. I wanted to come up with a pictogram representing me, and I went for the nude Waltermann because I want to show my real self. Everything is very personal, and stripping off your clothes is telling nothing is fake; nothing is added, and that’s a little bit of the spirit I wanted to have in the collections. It’s a transparent way of working. I have very loyal clients who are very excited every season to see the new things happening and new things coming. And the clients are also following that same spirit, which is nice.
Who does Waltermann hang out with? Does he have lore or animated friends?
Well, I think the Waltermann has the most in common with Santa Claus, probably because of the beard, of course. A little bit like the gnome, the one who is in the garden. It’s also part of a fairy tale.
They don’t have to pay taxes or anything.
A few years ago, I went to Australia since my exhibition was there in Melbourne, and we had a night with the students of the schools, and they were all dressed up, and a few of them were really dressed up like the Waltermann; they were wearing red lycra suits with the white parts. It was fantastic to see them all getting inspired by it.
This little character is very related to the space you were trying to open for the sex positive movement back then: do you think this space is open now? Do you feel your goal has been achieved in this regard?
From the beginning, I was really very much working around gender freedom. On the catwalk in the 90s, I was showing a big man, a small man, a tiny man, a very tall man, so it was a variety of people, which I really enjoyed. It also fitted very well with the concept of Wild & Lethal Trash, so this flexibility and this fluidity were always there in my collection. I was doing what I thought was the right thing to do. At that time society was not even thinking about it; the fashion world was rather straightforward, and then over the years it became an important thing — the gender bending and the fluidity — in such a way that today I’m less interested in it because I did it so much before, and for me it’s not an urgency anymore to underline that.
What are you now interested in, then?
For the moment, for me it is more important to underline the clothes and the collection and how it looks. For example, in the last collections, I didn’t present it on bigger men or anything because I didn’t see the necessity. Meanwhile, this is happening in a lot of other brands, and I’m really happy that it happens, but I don’t see the necessity for me to keep doing it. People are asking why I did before so many mixed castings and used so many different types of people, and now I don’t do it that much. I say, yeah, then it was important to make a statement, but today, that statement is happening everywhere.
Has the imagery related to sexuality lost a bit of its power for how present it is in today’s society?
Yeah, it’s like the message sometimes is a little misused. Like greenwashing, it’s almost like a marketing tool, and that’s why I also keep a little bit of distance from that kind of marketing because I think there are other things that can also be said and can be shown.
You’ve always been keen on involving concepts coming from subcultures like punk or BDSM, it has always felt meaningful; there’s a further reason than the mere aesthetic of them. The concept of subcultures, I feel, has been very diluted in our times, where for the general public it has become more about the looks than the meaning. Do you feel subcultures are being treated wrongly in more recent times?
Yeah, it’s a pity. I lived the punk moment. I was not a punk, but I lived that period, so I was very aware of it. Now it is more used as a kind of rebellious gimmick. It’s not that you have to become a punk to wear something rebellious, but sometimes things from subcultures are really used in a little bit of a ridiculous way. It’s losing its meaning. We’re living really overwhelmed by images, and when, for example, you go online, you Google a thing, and you get all these images, but there is no context. You suddenly see an image from a punk in the 70s, but because there’s no context, a lot of young people print it out, and then they start to use it or misuse it without knowing.
It’s like normalising ideas led to a wrongful interpretation of them.
And that’s also the reason why subcultures really disappeared. There are really few subcultures today, and they were very important to let fashion move on because it was the first injection from the underground to the street, and that is not really existing anymore.
There’s this conversation about the archival pieces new celebrities are wearing to all sorts of events. They are referencing the past, but they are not building a new identity to serve as inspiration in the future. In ten years, people won’t know how to reference our time.
Yes, it’s true, and that’s also what is happening now with second-hand clothing. I understand very well that it is the best way to be sustainable, and there is a lot of quality clothing from the 70s, 80s, and 90s, but once you start to wear it, you’re wearing a little bit of the past. In fact, your look is not from today; it’s from decades ago, and that makes fashion today very weird. Before on the street, you could feel the time and you cannot feel that anymore since so many people are wearing second-hand. And that’s a very strange thing.
Do you agree with the statement that in fashion everything has been invented?
Yeah, but still sometimes I see things that I think are still rather new. The kind of approach, how you bring things together, how you interpret things, or how you use certain materials. A lot is done, but I think it’s always possible to give something fresh.
There’s still hope.
Yes, if I didn’t have hope, I wouldn’t be doing interviews (laughs). I still believe in the world. I’m probably naive, but I believe that there are good people, and I really cross my fingers that everything won’t get out of hand. It’s very scary and very dangerous what is going on.
I have these three last questions that I took out from the show notes from your latest collection, which was very beautifully written by the way. You first said, “The world explodes, and I’m dreaming.” What are you currently dreaming about?
For the moment, I’m dreaming about my new dog, who’s on his way. I’m going to have a puppy soon. I’ll show you (he shows me a picture of the cutest bull terrier puppy ever).
Omg, it’s so cute! That breed fits you so much, wow!
Yeah, it’s only two weeks. This is the mum (he shows me a picture of the mum with many little puppies), so now we’re in a WhatsApp group where we get the daily updates and pictures. We’re going to have it in eight weeks. So, there will be a dog in my life, which is something that we’re looking forward to.
Congratulations! The next sentence says, “The world explodes, and I’m happy.” What are you happy about?
I’m generally happy, and it’s almost difficult to be happy because of what’s going on in the world. That’s what I wanted to say. There are explosions, there are bombs, but still I feel happy because that’s how I want to feel, but it’s becoming more and more difficult.
And finally, “The world explodes, and I’m dancing.” What are you dancing to?
I’m a big music fan. I listen when I’m working because I’m mostly working at home. I have some records here at the office, but I have Spotify now; it’s only recently that I started to use it. I used to be really a CD buyer, but then I also realised you can find much more there. I’ve been listening to a lot of opera recently, Maria Callas. I like these voices. I like strong women singing and also mythological operas (he shows me albums of “Orfeo ed Euridice” by Gluck on Spotify). But I mean, of course, besides that, I’m also listening to Billie Eilish.
Oh, really? Do you like the current stuff?
Yes, I’m very much also into very contemporary music. But opera is something I really enjoy. Probably rather unexpected.
Yeah, I was not expecting that, actually. I always hear you talk about David Bowie but I was really curious about your current favourites.
I like a lot of different genres. I’m also very into Amanda Lear (laughs). Do you know Amanda?
I don’t! What type of music does she do?
She was huge when I was young. She was a lover of Salvador Dalí, and at that time people were saying that she was trans. She is a cisgender woman, but she had a very deep voice, so at the time, it was very controversial. The songs are very disco (he plays “Diamonds”).
I’m adding it to one of my many playlists for sure!
I think music is very important. It gives you energy. It’s always good to discover new things.
