Kadiff Kirwan writes to us at the end of what has been, in his own words, a “perfect summer”. Wrapping a 10-week run of The Hot Wing King at the National Theatre, and season four of the Emmy award-winning Apple TV drama Slow Horses, Kirwan is an actor who thrives on the demands of multiple juggled projects. Reflecting on the two projects, Kirwan spoke to us about the contrasting demands and excitements of theatre and TV, all the while looking forward to his next project: a self-written comedy drama that he promises will be Black, queer and challenging.
Kadiff Kirwan is a British-Montserratin actor whose previous credits include Fleabag, Chewing Gum and My Policeman. In his most recent screen role he played Marcus Longridge in Slow Horses — a married man, gambler and failed MI5 agent. Based on the spy novels by Mick Herron, it is a darkly humorous show with production values that rival film. On stage, Kirwan most recently took up the role of Cordell in Katori Hall’s Pultzer Prize winning play The Hot Wing King. Like in Slow Horses, profound emotional reckonings are served up with a laugh in this heart-warming comedy that explores themes of Black Masculinity, sexuality and found families, all in the heat of a Memphis Hot Wings Festival.
Hi Kadiff, how are you? Where are you writing to us from now?
Hi, I am good! Very good in fact, currently being draped in sunlight on a balcony in Barcelona! Trying to catch the last rays of summer before we enter 4 to 5 months of English autumn/winter. So, I am currently very good!
It’s been a great year for Slow Horses, most recently at this year’s Emmy Awards. The show was nominated nine times and won an award for outstanding writing in a drama series — congratulations! How was the night for you, are award ceremonies something you enjoy?
The Emmys were fantastic! The night was brilliant! So so happy for our writer Will Smith who won his Emmy for Outstanding Writing for our show. I met some wonderful people and we as a cast and crew really just enjoyed ourselves. I do, to a certain extent, enjoy awards. The Emmys in particular were quite stressful to begin with. I’d just fished my final performance at The National Theatre in The Hot Wing King, got on a flight after the show to LA which ended up being delayed and had to get ready in the back of the car from LA to the awards, so it was really stressful! But all worth it in the end because it was a magnificent evening.
Other than Slow Horses, were there any shows you think deserved a nomination or award? What have you been loving recently?
I was really happy with the winner of Best Comedy, Hacks. I thought it was a fantastic season. I love that show. I adore Jean Smart and Hannah Einbinder and was really happy to see the cast and crew up there receiving their well-deserved win.
The ceremony came just off the back of what I imagine has been a very busy time for you. Season four of Slow Horses came out on 4 September, during the 10 week run of The Hot Wing King, in which you also had a leading role. Have you found it difficult to balance the responsibilities of these two roles?
Yes, it has been a very busy time for me but I love it when it’s busy. The Hot Wing King at The National was amazing. It was challenging because it was such a demanding role — nearly 3 hours on stage nonstop at an elevated level of energy and intensity but it was such a brilliant production to be a part of. I love the show and already miss it as well as the cast and crew. Balancing that with Slow Horses has been difficult in places but on the whole I feel truly blessed to be able to do screen and stage. Slow Horses and The Hot Wing King in tandem were just the recipe for a perfect summer.
How do you think Marcus, your character in Slow Horses, and Cordell, your character in The Hot Wing King, compare? Do you think they would be friends?
I am not sure! I think Cordell and Marcus are quite different but potentially their values are the same. They are both family men and want the best for their families and those around them. I do think Marcus is probably better at communicating than Cordell. Cordell is a bit of a tyrant at times. I think Marcus would have a good sense of humour when having a conversation with Cordell so who knows. They might have a good drink together or bond over watching some football or basketball together.
Do you feel more similar to one than the other, or equally dissimilar to both? What experiences in your own life did you draw on when playing each character?
I’m quite different than both these characters but that’s the beauty of being an actor and getting to delve into these personalities that you wouldn’t normally get to explore. I love Cordell’s lack of filter, and I enjoy Marcus’s sarcasm. I brought my own cooking skills to Cordell, I’m a keen cook and love cooking for my friends and family so that was quite fun to be able to do that on stage. With Marcus, I try to take some of his ease with things as sometimes I can be a bit highly strung and he is someone who operates well under stress. So, I’ve been trying to take that into my life a little bit more.
How different did you find your preparation for these two roles?
The preparation for these roles were quite different. With Cordell, in The Hot Wing King, it was about getting myself physically ready to do 8 shows a week for 10 weeks and have the energy and specificity needed to tell that story to every audience every single night. And with Marcus it was more about tuning into his truth in those moments. Being on camera and doing TV is a very expensive art-form to make, so you’ve got to get it right in those moments as everyone is under a time crunch. There’s no time for a million takes so it’s about arriving to each scene completely prepared and focused and trying to get it right in that moment. With the play, if you got something wrong you could correct it the next night.
Slow Horses is a slightly unusual television series, in that its production is more similar in scale to a film production. Is this high-production style of TV something you’d worked on before? How does it differ from other TV sets you’ve worked on, like Chewing Gum and Fleabag, for example?
The production values for Slow Horses is so high. Apple have been incredible. I always say you can see the money on the screen — the locations we film at, the costumes, the set pieces, the stunts, all of that, you see it on screen. They’ve really invested in our show and it’s wonderful because you see every department topping themselves with each season and going above and beyond.
I have to ask how it is to work with Gary Oldman, that must’ve been so incredible! Have you been able to mine his brain for any words of wisdom and experience? Anything you could share with us?
It’s amazing working with Gary! It’s just been one of the joys of my career being up close and personal with someone as talented and as brilliant as that! Words of wisdom, I would say I’ve just enjoyed observing him — he is someone who just digs down deep into the truth and has a fully rounded understanding of the characters that he plays. Especially as Jackson Lamb, he lives the whole thing from the tip of his toes to the top of his head. When he is in character, he just is Lamb. It’s been so nice to see someone just pour themselves and get lost in the character like he does and just really committing to it.
Are you able to choose a favourite between working on TV, film and theatre? Does your approach to the script differ much across the three? I’m thinking maybe in terms of rehearsal time, and the space available off-script for improvisation and play in your acting.
I adore working in all 3 mediums, I think they all bring and require something different. My approach pretty much stays the same but I think with theatre you have to get yourself physically to a place where you can sustain it for a longer period of time. And with TV and film, they can shout “cut”, whereas you can’t quite do that on stage, so you just have to be in peak fitness to do theatre. I’ve really enjoyed getting to the point of being able to do that for The Hot Wing King.
The Hot Wing King wrapped not long ago (on 14th September) after a 10-week run at the National Theatre, London. What were your feelings in the lead up to this run, and what are your immediate feelings now that it’s finished?
Yeah, I finished The Hot Wing King two weeks ago! I was very very nervous prior to starting rehearsals because The National is just one of those places that is the definition of excellence, you see that in every department. So being back there was something I have always wanted to do. I haven’t done a play there for about seven or eight years, so going back with this particular play was so special. I think nerves are good because it means that you know it will cost you something and you’ve got to rise to an occasion. Throughout the run that’s what I tried to do — keep rising to the occasion and serving up that story to the audiences. I just adored doing it and being a part of it.
It’s really great to see new kinds of representation of Black Queer men on stage. From your perspective, is this progression more prevalent in theatre compared to film or TV? Of these, is there an industry you feel is the least progressive in terms of representation?
This play was different archetypal black men on stage, operating in one space and just taking up space. So often we don’t really get to see our own stories being told, especially from the queer spectrum. I think TV and film is getting better but also think there is a long way to go in centring these stories. You often find that the black queer stories are always the B or C plot lines, or are serving the best friend role, or the comedic role. So I am happy to see that things are changing. I would love to continue to play these range of characters on screen. I think theatre is continuing to get it right by broadening the stories and the inclusivity for all is something that I’m very hopeful for.
Both The Hot Wing King and Slow Horses really lean into comedy to accommodate otherwise sombre scenarios and raw emotional reckonings. Do you often find yourself drawn to these kinds of comedic dramas? If so, why?
Yes, they both do lean into comedy. I am drawn to them because in the darkest of times you find yourself laughing in situations. I think comedy is something that lives within all of us at all points and what’s been so beautiful about Slow Horses is that they are side by side, they are not two separate things. The experience of laughter and tears. I think the best shows that are out there are the ones that are able to merge the two because that is what life is. It can be joyful and painful all in one sentence.
Finally, I know you are currently writing your own comedy drama, Plan B, on commission from the BBC. What can you tell us about this so far?
Yes, I am writing my own drama comedy drama. What can I tell you? It’s a story of two friends on a journey that turns out to be unlike what they expected. It’s going to be joyful, it’s going to be black, it’s going to be queer and it’s going to be challenging. And I’m hopeful that it’s also going to be entertaining. I’m enjoying writing it, as hard as it is. I’m excited to continue to find these characters before I serve them up to the world.
