The debate about AI and ownership is in a very interesting point: as we test the waters of a new technology that seems impossible to stop, defenders and detractors weigh in the pros and cons, especially in the creative fields. Cameo Blush, a UK producer, is leaning towards experimenting with AI and see what might come out of it. And some of the results, you can check in Grace in Motion, his new EP, out today.
“I wanted to use the EP to see if could reframe AI (mostly just for myself) and if it could be used as a tool to allow me to make creative decisions I wouldn’t normally choose,” Cameo, aka John Dunk, tells us in this interview. “But I wanted to keep these decisions outside of the creation of the music, like naming songs or creating stimulus for visual content,” he clarifies. So, to make it clear: songs like Essa, Violet, Here, or Once Chance (all from his new record) have been entirely made by him. Well, with a little help — but human.
Via social media, he’s asked his listeners for feedback on some demos and sketches of songs. He even made polls so they could choose what way some of these songs could go. “I didn’t want to make the point of real-time criticism via social media being a good or bad thing, just thought that it was a fun idea to use on the EP. The process let me use social media platforms, which are often seen as negative, to create something positive and inclusive,” he comments.
As his new record is out today, we take the opportunity to sit down with Cameo Blush to discuss authorship, his musical training, ethics in technology, and detox from all things digital.
Hey John, I hope you’re well. To get to know you better, could you guide us through your latest obsessions (songs/records, films, series, books…)?
Hi Arnau, I’m good, thanks, hope you are too! I’ve just watched the first episode of Adam Curtis’ Shifty, which just came out recently on the BBC in the UK. I’m a huge fan of his documentaries, but this one in particular feels more relevant and ominous to me because I’m now old enough to remember the events he references. Apart from that, I’ve just reread one of my favourite books which is In Cold Blood by Truman Capote. These were both pretty heavy, so I listen to this podcast called Chatabix to balance it out.
You decided to work under the Cameo Blush moniker. How so, and where does the name originate?
I wanted to call it Blush Response, which is a concept from Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep/Bladerunner, which I was super into when I started the project. But someone already had that name, so I just put a word in front of Blush that I thought looked nice written down (laughs).
We all love music, but how did you decide to go for it professionally?
I got into music originally just from enjoying playing instruments. Then, when I discovered producing music on computers/hardware, I knew this was something that I wanted to make a career from.
I haven’t been able to find any info on your early years: do you have any sort of classical training? And then later I assume you got into production?
I played saxophone at school and then studied classical music. Since before I started studying music seriously, I wanted to write music for films/TV/media, and that’s something I’m pursuing with this project. I started producing when I was around seventeen and instantly loved it. Sounds simplistic, but before using Logic/Ableton, I thought you had to be in a room with four or five musicians to create music, so being able to control all elements of a track myself was liberating. Having made music mostly alone for the past ten years, I’m really inspired at the moment to work with more musicians again.
You’re about to release Grace in Motion. How did the EP come to be, and how long have you been working on putting it together?
I made most of the music towards the end of summer last year. Usually, it takes me months to get a track list together that I’m satisfied with, but the main ideas of these tracks happened in the space of about two weeks, which is really unusual for me!
The record has been informed by feedback from your fans; you took into account their opinions and tweaked some bits here and there to accommodate their desires. How would you say that helps blur the definition of ‘authorship’?
I have always enjoyed seeing people’s feedback on ideas/demos/sketches, so I thought it would be fun to use these as much as possible. I used some of the feedback to generate the visuals, and the tracks were chosen by polls. I didn’t want to make the point of real-time criticism via social media being a good or bad thing, just thought that it was a fun idea to use on the EP. The process let me use social media platforms, which are often seen as negative, to create something positive and inclusive.
I also think since the millennium, the ownership of music has been complicated. I’d say that with the advent of streaming and the decline of physical media, all music is so accessible that in a lot of ways, it is owned by everyone now.
I also think since the millennium, the ownership of music has been complicated. I’d say that with the advent of streaming and the decline of physical media, all music is so accessible that in a lot of ways, it is owned by everyone now.
You’ve used AI as a creative tool. For example, it’s helped you name the songs and the EP. Some artists see it as a threat, while others, like you, are already using it as just another resource. But do you try to put any limits to it, or try to use it ‘ethically’?
I think there is a very important debate happening around AI, ownership, and creativity at the moment. There’s obviously no escaping its development, and I personally think that it can be used in an ethical way if there is legislation regarding ownership of material and how models are trained. As AI is still in its relative infancy, I think these decisions about protecting the rights of artists and musicians have to be made now in order to avoid a proliferation of copycat artists (computer-generated or human) claiming other people’s work as their own.
I wanted to use the EP to see if I could reframe AI (mostly just for myself) and if it could be used as a tool to allow me to make creative decisions I wouldn’t normally choose. But I wanted to keep these decisions outside of the creation of the music, like naming songs or creating stimulus for visual content. I think that the use of generative AI for anything more than for its own novelty could be dangerously unfair, particularly when people are claiming this work to be their own, and I find the willingness of certain music platforms to host and promote AI-generated artists and music quite troubling. But hopefully, this is a time we’ll look back on in twenty years as a big deal over nothing.
I wanted to use the EP to see if I could reframe AI (mostly just for myself) and if it could be used as a tool to allow me to make creative decisions I wouldn’t normally choose. But I wanted to keep these decisions outside of the creation of the music, like naming songs or creating stimulus for visual content. I think that the use of generative AI for anything more than for its own novelty could be dangerously unfair, particularly when people are claiming this work to be their own, and I find the willingness of certain music platforms to host and promote AI-generated artists and music quite troubling. But hopefully, this is a time we’ll look back on in twenty years as a big deal over nothing.
I remember when Grimes released her own AI software and said that if fans could make a song that she liked, she’d release it and share the royalties with whoever made it. Now you’re also using your audience to shape your music. Do you see this boundary between artist and listeners growing more and more blurry in the future?
I don’t know, I think it’d be an interesting thing to look into. In terms of real-time feedback, it can’t go much further, but definitely I think you could make something interesting by asking people to send voice notes/samples/recordings which you then used. I think the boundary between artist and listeners is more blurry as the creation of music is much more democratised and accessible now — lots of people have access to music-making software, tutorials, and DJing, which I think is amazing.
You’ve worked alongside other artists like Sherelle and Surusinghe. How similar or different is your approach when you’re in the studio by yourself vs when you produce with someone else?
Making music with other people is one of my favourite things about being a musician, I love it so much. I think that decisions get made so much faster than if I was on my own in there, and the music created is often so different. The approach is way more about being comfortable with each other, getting on, and being able to share ideas without fear of judgement. The tracks I’ve released with other artists are some of my favourite tracks I’ve worked on, and I honestly feel so lucky to work with such amazing artists!
Technology plays a pivotal role in your approach to music-making. What do you do to detox?
I truly enjoy walking and running. I’m from the Lake District in the UK – people might recognise some of the scenery from my Rinse show photos – and there are lots of mountains up there, so it's a great place to detox from computers :)
